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OK, had this conversation over the weekend at my shop, and although I thought I knew the 5th ed rules, this one bothered me:

Since the ramming and tank shock rules are in the "tank" section of the 5th ed rules, many people are saying that you can only ram or tank shock with a vehicle that is classified as a tank. Is this true? Why or why not?

I didn't have a good argument for anyone other than: Why wouldn't it be just a "+1 to the str" insted of a "+1 for being a tank"?

If this has been covered before I apologize. Thanks.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/214803.page

The +1 str for being a tank is in there because the rammed vehicle can also inflict damage. A rammed tank gets the +1, a non-tank doesn't. Because ramming is a kind of tank shock, only tanks can ram and they will always get the +1.

Ork trukks can also ram with a vehicle upgrade, and I think there are a couple other vehicles in the game that can ram without being tanks.

Ork trukks can Tank Shock with an upgrade.

It is debatable whether that also lets them Ram.

Ram is a special type of tank shock.

And Run is a special type of movement. Doesn't mean the rules are the same.

And the bit saying that Ram is a special part of TS is easily interpreted as fluff.

No, it's not easily interpreted as 'fluff'. It's not worded like fluff at all. It's worded as a rule, hence ramming is a type of Tank Shock and can be performed by a vehicle which can Tank Shock.

Ork Trukks and Dark Eldar vehicles can purchase upgrades that allow them to Tank Shock.

Beyond these exceptions, only Tanks may Tank Shock. As Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock, only Tanks may Ram.

The Dark Eldar vehicle upgrade that allows Raiders to Tank Shock has been FAQed to disallow ramming. Ork Trukks have no such restrictions.

Ghaz wrote:No, it's not easily interpreted as 'fluff'. It's not worded like fluff at all. It's worded as a rule, hence ramming is a type of Tank Shock and can be performed by a vehicle which can Tank Shock.

Yes, I understand that you feel that way. I do not believe that is what the rules state. Even if Ram is a type of tank shock, it is still different, and being able to do one, does not mean you can do all variants.

But if we ever play, I am more than willing to flip a coin over it.

Its NOT a flip a coin issue. A ram is a tank shock, if you cannot tank shock you cannot ram, otherwise why would the DE faq have errata that says their vehicle upgrade that allows tank shocking does not allow ramming.

To make for more fun internet drama, of course!

Trukks can ram simply because of the game mechanics.

Pick a direction, go.

Hit infantry, it's a tank shock.

Hit a vehicle, it's a ram.

coredump wrote:Yes, I understand that you feel that way. I do not believe that is what the rules state.

First it's 'fluff', but now it's a 'rule'?

coredump wrote:Even if Ram is a type of tank shock, it is still different, and being able to do one, does not mean you can do all variants.

The way it's worded, yes it does indeed mean that you can do both. If a vehicle can make a tank shock move then it can ram because that's what it is. It's a tank shock move.

coredump wrote:But if we ever play, I am more than willing to flip a coin over it.

And then I'll guess we'll just 'flip a coin' and see if I'll let you do something that's quite clearly legal and by the rules as well.

Ghaz wrote:The Dark Eldar vehicle upgrade that allows Raiders to Tank Shock has been FAQed to disallow ramming. Ork Trukks have no such restrictions.

...

...

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*Quits playing DE forever.*

Alright, Tau and Space Marines, do me proud.

Ghaz is right here. I have found no rules reference that says they can't. Please provide one if you think they can't.

Phil Kelly said in the Q&A at the design seminar at Games Day that trukks with reinforced rams cannot ram vehicles. He then said they are too ramshackle and if they did try to ram vehicles they would just go 'kllannng' and bits would fall off.

Wouldn't be the first time a designer said one thing at a convention and then said the exact opposite in the official FAQ.

not like it matters that trukks cannot ram.. even at max speed its unlikely to damage anything..

this comes from the games i've played with my KOS, not just opinion.

I'll take the ability to tank shock.. its useful enough

NaZ