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Here's the list as is:
Doctrines:
Drop Troops (Everyone drops)
Special Weapons Teams
Close Order Drill
Sharpshooters
Veterans

HQ
Command Platoon:
-JO (Honorifica Imp, PW/BP, Carapce, Refractor, Bionics)
--4x Guardsmen w/master vox
-Special Weapons Team (2xFlamer, Demo)
-Special Weapons Team (2xFlamer, Demo)

ELITES
5x Hardened Vets (3xMelta)
5x Hardened Vets (3xMelta)
5x Hardened Vets (3xFlamer)

FAST ATTACK
Sentinel (Heavy Flamer, Improved Comms)
Sentinel (Heavy Flamer, Improved Comms)

TROOPS
Infantry Platoon A
-JO (LP/PW, Carapace)
--4 Naked IG
-Squad 1 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 2 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 3 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 4 (Melta, Vox, Sharpshooters)


Infantry Platoon B
-JO (LP/PW, Carapace)
--4 Naked IG
-Squad 1 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 2 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 3 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 4 (Melta, Vox, Sharpshooters)

Infantry Platoon C
-JO (LP/PW, Carapace)
--4 Naked IG
-Squad 1 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 2 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 3 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 4 (Melta, Vox, Sharpshooters)

Points: 1750
Models: 169
Flamers/Heavy Flamers: 9
Meltas: 9
Plasmas: 9

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some thoughts on the list as is:
I've come to see Sharpshooters used as above is not optimal. I want to change that, either get rid of it all together, or use it on the melta squads.
I've been against using suicide command squads, instead opting for them to be objective grabbers away from the action. They're rarely targeted since they are no imminent threat, and there's usually more pressing targets for the enemy. But without knowing how margins of victory will be determined in the tourney, I'm not sure that I want three command squads doing that duty.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here's what I'm looking for:
Because of the nature of the army as its built and as its being built, I don't have the time or opportunity for any major changes or overhauls before the GT. There are 2 changes I'm looking at, that I can accommodate in my building/painting schedule before then. I'm really looking for some input as to which change would be better. Thanks.

Option 1:
Remove Sharpshooters from the Plasma infantry squads (leaving it on the 3 melta infantry squads) (-90 points)
Add 4 meltas and sharpshooters to one command squad (+50 points)
Add 4 plasmas to one other command squad (+40 points)
This give me a little more punch, and makes better use of sharpshooters. This also insures that 2 of my command squads will be a high priority target. It leaves me with one to grab an objective in my backfield.

Option 2:
Remove sharpshooters doctrine (-120)
Add carapace armor doctrine (+210 points) (Should be +420 points)
Remove bionics from my HQ and carapace from all the officers (-25 points)
Remove all voxes and master vox (-85 points)
This leaves me 20 points to play with (not much I can do)
This lowers my army from LD 9 to 8 essentially. I don't think its that big of a problem. In combat, there will be enough modifiers that I will fail anyway (which is what I want). Against small arms fire it makes me a little more survivable. Plus my HQ would be operating in the back field, if a squad is running away, he can try to intercept them with his 12" LD9 bubble.
EDIT: Whoops! So for some reason I had in my head that Carapace was 10 instead of 20 points per squad. That would definitely change things, since I'm not really willing to drop models for carapace. Anyway to come up with the extra 210 points, lol? Thoughts?



With either option, my model count stays the same. Thoughts?

Hi dvdhwk
There is a lot of goodness in your approach to an all drop IG force. Here are some comments/suggestions.

-JO (Honorifica Imp, PW/BP, Carapce, Refractor, Bionics)

Bionics, really?

5x Hardened Vets (3xFlamer)

Vets are great because of their BS. Flamers are a waste of this skill.
Giving them Meltas would almost certainly be a better idea.

--4 Naked IG

Now there is a great place for the flamers

-Squad 1 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 2 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)
-Squad 3 (Plasma, Vox, Sharpshooters)

Terrible waste!! The little fellows still go POP on a 1, so sharpshooters could never be put to worse use than this. Unless you really want to spend that much for BS3.5 lasguns....

Anyway to come up with the extra 210 points, lol? Thoughts?

Drop Sharpshooters!! PLEASE! There isn't a heavy weapon in the whole list to benefit from it - its just a points sink.

All IMHO.
Actually I usually say that, but frankly you just need to drop Sharpshooters on plasma gunners lol.

He is right, sharpshooters are a waste in your build. I played against an Elysian list at the LVGT last year that was maxed out on plasma. It was a crazy list that I was very unfamiliar with. Very scary. I was lucky to scrape out a win playing Tyranids against it.

Hey guys,
I appreciate the advice, but I already said that I'm essentially dropping sharpshooters, because I realize that the original list isn't utilizing correctly. And even after dropping sharpshooters I would still need to come up with another 210 points to even make option 2 work.

I'm probably going to go with Option 1, maintaining Sharpshooters on the 3 single melta squads and on the one 4xmelta command squad. Is it still a waste used that way? There's not really another doctrine that I'm interested in.

About the flamer vets - I've struggled with putting flamers on them. I've felt exactly the same way about their BS4. Problem is now they're built, and I wouldn't necessarily have the points for them.

As far as bionics goes, I had 5 points left over. I'm not married to the idea.

sharp shooters deosnt work on plasma, it is a total waste of points. complete and utter waste. not trying to be a dick, butt hat is the truth of it. i would say it might be good on melta squads and worth it if you have a spare doctrine.

vox is a waste of points in this list too (actually, its always a waste to be honest). your guys wont survive being shot at or charged, assume any squad deep striking that is targeted will be destoyed. You want max units to compensate for this, not buffed units as they die so easily and a bad scatter will net your opponant all those extra points for no effort.

the command platoon with HI, carapace, Bionics, refractor and master vox is a waste. just give them 4 special weapons and that is it, 80 points of pure death, they rock.

you should for sure avoid the flamers on vets, they need plasma or melta. give infatry squads flamers as it compliments all the lasguns.

not putting maxed special weapons on your command squads is a HUGE mistake, those squads are your bread and butter.

you should take more platoons so you can get the max number of command platoons with 4 melta or 4 plasma each, they are the most points efficient unit in a drop army.

the key to this army is maxed out units with maxed special weapons. its about quantity, not quality. You are shooting yourself in the foot with all the extra gubbins, the army would be far more effective with more guys and guns and less garbage.

take a look at jungle fighters, giving an infantry squad a flamer and heavy flamer makes them awesome vs. infantry, i use them in my list and they are just fantastic for the points. 91 pints gets you a brutal anti infantry squad and the plus 1 to the cover save is great too in wood terrain. (obviosuly deep stirking of course, just wanted ot make that clear)

hope that helps and good luck to you!

I'm interested to see how you model the Naked IG.

Reecius wrote:sharp shooters deosnt work on plasma, it is a total waste of points. complete and utter waste. not trying to be a dick, butt hat is the truth of it. i would say it might be good on melta squads and worth it if you have a spare doctrine.

Don't think you're being a dick, just not reading my post completely. In the original post, I said that with either option, the plasma squads would no longer have sharpshooters. I already admitted, again in the first post, that I've learned the error of my ways with how I was originally using sharpshooters.

Reecius wrote:vox is a waste of points in this list too (actually, its always a waste to be honest). your guys wont survive being shot at or charged, assume any squad deep striking that is targeted will be destoyed. You want max units to compensate for this, not buffed units as they die so easily and a bad scatter will net your opponant all those extra points for no effort.

I don't think a 5 point upgrade would constitute a "buffed" unit. And they do survive being shot or charged at. Because what charges them or shoots them is so understrength to begin with. Its a total 85 point expenditure for the entire army, I think its worthwhile. As far as max units, I have 23. If I dropped vox, that would give me 24. Not that big a difference. With Go to ground and the abundance of 4+ cover saves, and with being I4 (COD) they have a decent chance of getting away. I really don't think it should be an assumption that a squad will die outright. There is definitely a point for voxes in this list.

Reecius wrote:the command platoon with HI, carapace, Bionics, refractor and master vox is a waste. just give them 4 special weapons and that is it, 80 points of pure death, they rock.

Again with the bionics? I originally had 5 points left over with nothing to spend it on. Carapce is not a waste with the new wound allocation. I don't want them to be a suicide squad. I think that overloading on suicide squads is overrated frankly.

Reecius wrote:you should for sure avoid the flamers on vets, they need plasma or melta. give infatry squads flamers as it compliments all the lasguns.

I just broke off the flamers on my vets, and am giving the thre squads with single melta flamers instead. Like I said earlier, I was struggling with this decision, and finally decided to come around to it.

Reecius wrote:not putting maxed special weapons on your command squads is a HUGE mistake, those squads are your bread and butter.

you should take more platoons so you can get the max number of command platoons with 4 melta or 4 plasma each, they are the most points efficient unit in a drop army.

the key to this army is maxed out units with maxed special weapons. its about quantity, not quality. You are shooting yourself in the foot with all the extra gubbins, the army would be far more effective with more guys and guns and less garbage.

Well, I've partially addressed this. To use your food methaphor, I think the 225+ lasgun shots is the cake, and the meltas/plasmas are the icing on that cake. I really don't think I running with that much extra stuff. I'm running 85 points in wargear and weapons on the 4 officers, and 85 points in voxes. I have 169 models. Granted, that could net me 20 extra models, but I think there comes a point of diminishing returns, especially when it comes down to finding room to drop. Plus as I said in my first post, I'm going to be under the gun to get what I have planned finished. But still, 169 is still a lot of dudes.

Reecius wrote:take a look at jungle fighters, giving an infantry squad a flamer and heavy flamer makes them awesome vs. infantry, i use them in my list and they are just fantastic for the points. 91 pints gets you a brutal anti infantry squad and the plus 1 to the cover save is great too in wood terrain. (obviosuly deep stirking of course, just wanted ot make that clear)

I'm sure. Won't work with my theme (Sons of Sek), or with my schedule before the GT.

Reecius wrote:hope that helps and good luck to you!

I do appreciate you taking the time to give me your input, thanks.

@dvdhawk - Where in Tucson do you play? If I ever get my Tanith army finished, I'd love to do a reenactment battle of the Armor of Contempt sometime.

Death By Monkeys wrote:@dvdhawk - Where in Tucson do you play? If I ever get my Tanith army finished, I'd love to do a reenactment battle of the Armor of Contempt sometime.

That would be bad ass!

I play at Hat's. I've played some at Nemesis too, but I like the table availability at Hat's better.

I always figured that one way to describe my troops dropping in would be by using those warp portals.

Hi dvdhwk

Your Option 1 is probably the best of the alternatives.

Sharpshooters has a role to play on Melta squads. I honestly wouldn't worry about the concern that it makes the command squads a 'high priority target' - 5 men dropping with meltaguns they couldn't get any higher on the enemies to-do list if they were painted with bullseyes and neon Las Vegas lighting!
You might as well light them up and watch the enemy burn.

BTW most comments are based on your army list as posted, rather than taking your options into account; thats pretty standard practise, and why so many people are saying no plasma and sharpshooters.

you should take more platoons so you can get the max number of command platoons with 4 melta or 4 plasma each, they are the most points efficient unit in a drop army.

That is a good idea.

not trying to be a dick, butt hat is the truth of it

He meant 'But That' - I hope.
Good luck Dvd.

hahaha, yeah, but that, not butt hat!

and dvdhwk, you are right i missed that part about the options, sorry, i should have caught that.

go with what you want to go with for sure, but from my experience, those extras are not worth it. sharpshooters is better in a gunline army, but if it gets you that one reroll that you need it could make the points back, but statistically, the extra squad with more guns will earn you more kills than the extra .5 BS.

Vox, honestly, sucks, no joke. It is a waste of points. That extra squad you could pick up would most likely be better than being able to reroll a ld test. but that is just my opinion.

the tricked out command squad wont get its points back, it just wont. what will it do? it will still die to anything that attacks it. you are just handing you opponant an easy kill that is worth a lot of points. a suicide drop squad is infinitely better, and trust me, you want to max out on them, they are hands down the best squad in your army. in a a pure drop army, you want maxed out suicide drop squads, they hit SO hard for their points, like i said, best unit in the army without question. They only thing close to them are the vets. They are a small unit easy to drop and that hits hard.

you are correct though on running out of space, that gets annoying, but not much you can do about it.

and if you are going to a GT to be competitive, throw the theme out the window, the theme should be winning! you can easily fluff fit a theme into an army too, just make up some bulloney so that it seems logical.

but anyway, it sounds like you are going to do what you are going to do and that you have the models ret to roll so not much help we can provide, good luck to you and post us a battle report please.

I'll be taking a similar list, and here are my thoughts.

A few things I notice, first, I agree with every one about the command squad. I'll suggest something a little different for him though. Go, with Leadership 8, drop the voxes, and the HI, and the PW bolt p., That nets 116 you can take those points and put it into another platoon. Giving you 4 platoons of 3 squads with more kit. I'd suggest Hvy Bolters or Auto Cannons. I know that they can't fire on the drop, but they can use the lasguns that turn. As you list is right now, you've got no answer for a mech force. Rhinos and trukks will give you fits.(At least they do for me) The marines can sit in there tanks an shoot you without much fear. You'll get one damage roll for every 4 plasma guns(not too much better against ork trukks) in double tap, and then you need to pen with a 5-6. Not good odds. Currently you're list will pop about 1 to 2 per turn(Assuming meltas are on heavy tank duty).

Another note, you've 9 "units" to roll reserves for and 2 improved comms. That means if you roll an average 50% in on turn 2 you'll either get 2 or 7 units in depending on which you're going for. Either way your split up pretty bad. I think this is too little control. Move a sentinel or both to the Command platoon so you'll only dice for 7-8 "units".

Lastly, I wanted to make another comment about your HQ, I think it's a reasonable risk to give him all the survival gear. Most missions I've looked at have a battle point either for or against the general living through the battle. Making a non threatening HQ with above average survivablity plays to this possiblity.

Hope to see you there, good luck.