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So, got back from work last night to find that Prime Remix had arrived in the mail.
First, have to say I am VERY impressed with the book. Well laid out, nice artwork (plus its nice to see a rulebook written by someone with a sense of humour - I cracked up reading 'page 5'! )

What I'm not sure is what faction to start collecting.
On the one hand, I like the models and the colour scheme for Menoth, but I've nearly finished 3,000pts of WH/SoB for 40k and am not sure if I want another short range, zealous, fire-breathing army!
On the other hand, I like the background fluff and artwork for Cygnar and they seem to have more tactical options (although I admit I could be waay out on that one, having yet to play a game!). Plus, blue is really easy to paint up and look good!

So:
Q1. Which of these two would be a better starting faction for a Warmachine noob?
Q2. Is it worth getting the starter box for either faction or am I going to end up with stuff I don't need?
Q3. Roughly how much money will I be looking at parting with to get a decent 500 point force?
Q4. Is it worth getting the epic and/or superiority books? As I understand it, when you buy a model, the rules come with it on a card, so is there anything in the other books that would make them good buys?


Thanks in advance,
C_C

Welcome to Warmachine!

Before you buy ANYTHING, get a couple of demo games in to make sure you want to make the commitment.

Starter boxes are ALWAYS the way to go, unless you want to start with something esoteric, like Pirates. The Menoth and Cygnar sets are both good buys: Kreoss is a fairly forgiving first caster, and Stryker is meat-and-potatoes. Both sets come with warjacks that many people aren't huge fans of (Charger for Cygnar, the Repenter for Menoth). Personally, I think both 'jacks have their uses and will serve you fine until you start to branch out past 350 mangled metal games. I still use the charger in my Cygnar, and with the new(er) fire rules, the repenter has more utility, especially if you branch out to Feora.

I don't know what you mean by epic books (Legends?). All the rules you need are in Prime: Remix and the cards for the model. The books are nice if you want to have a detailed sense of what the other armies do (always a good thing) or the fluff/background/art etc. For rules, though, you can go to the Battle College Wiki (which you should go to anyway just to get some basica tactical advice etc.)

Cost: go look for the Armies of Immoren download: It's an Army Builder-like program for Warmachine/Hordes, but one of the nice functions is that it'll tell you the cost of an army you're trying to build. Generally speaking, though, you're looking at (retail) $150 or so, depending on your units-to-'jacks ratio. Cygnar can get away with fewer units than Menoth, just 'so's you know: Menoth is definitely more of a 'ravening hordes' type army.

Good luck!

Chimera_Calvin wrote:
Q1. Which of these two would be a better starting faction for a Warmachine noob?
Q2. Is it worth getting the starter box for either faction or am I going to end up with stuff I don't need?
Q3. Roughly how much money will I be looking at parting with to get a decent 500 point force?
Q4. Is it worth getting the epic and/or superiority books? As I understand it, when you buy a model, the rules come with it on a card, so is there anything in the other books that would make them good buys?

A1. I'd say they're both about the same. Protectorate has that "my guys are gonna die but makes these other guys better" approach, while Cygnar is more combined arms. Both have significant denial capabilities. Cygnar infantry is generally more expensive points-wise, so you might spend less cash overall getting up to 500 points. After that though, it'll probably even out.
A2. For both factions, it is worth getting the boxed set. Each one has what some consider a stinker (Charger for Cygnar, Repenter for Protectorate), but it comes at the price of almost free compared to buying the models separately. Besides, boxed set battles are an excellent way to get a handle on the game.
A3. $50 for the starter box puts you at roughly 300 points. Adding a unit or two and a solo or two will put you in the $120 to $150 range.
A4. With Prime: Remix, the only core rules you don't have are whatever they add in Legends. Model rules come on cards with the models, so you really just need Prime: Remix and your cards. But there are other reasons to buy the books. Art, fluff, campaign rules, scenarios, and all the other factions' model rules. All unnecessary, but cool nonetheless.

Thanks for the help guys, from what you've said I think I'm leaning more towards Cygnar.

I'll probably pick up a starter and try and persuade at least one of my gaming buddies to pick one up as well.

Are the points roughly the same in all the starters? We'll grab some games anyway to get an idea of the rules but it would be nice if they were fairly well balanced.

cheers again, C_C

The boxes are within about 20 points of each other. So they're pretty close.

Don't forget to buy the faction deck. It contains ALL the cards for the faction until superiority. Its kinda like a codex for warmachine (but not really)

As far as price goes... that first 500pts will cost between 150-200 USD (so about 80-110 GBP) depending on how much jacks you want. Infantry is considered more points effective but jacks are cheaper.

After the starter get trenchers, journeyman warcaster and gun mage captain adept. That 500 points of cygnar's signature troops and it works fine on the table top.

@Red_Lives - I was going to ask about that. As far as I understand, you get cards with each model (is that right?) that give you its stats, etc.

Obviously that means that unless you buy the model, you don't know what it can do!

You can get a faction deck as you point out, but that doesn't have all your options either....

Is there some kind of online resource that gives you the relevant info before you 'buy blind'?


@Metsuri - thanks for the advice!

I was looking at trenchers anyway, so I think they'll definately be my first buy after the starter box (or with it if I've enough cash ).

I think everything else is going to be proxy-model-tastic for a while, though

Chimera_Calvin wrote:@Red_Lives - I was going to ask about that. As far as I understand, you get cards with each model (is that right?) that give you its stats, etc.

Obviously that means that unless you buy the model, you don't know what it can do!

You can get a faction deck as you point out, but that doesn't have all your options either....

Is there some kind of online resource that gives you the relevant info before you 'buy blind'?


@Metsuri - thanks for the advice!

I was looking at trenchers anyway, so I think they'll definately be my first buy after the starter box (or with it if I've enough cash ).

I think everything else is going to be proxy-model-tastic for a while, though

Again, check the Battle College Wiki (see link above): they won't give specific stats, but will describe all the abilities for each model/unit and in what combos/synergies you should expect.

At the end of the day the best way to learn other armies is play against them.

keep in mind the only thing that isn't in the MK2 faction deck for each faction is the 3 or so models that were released in No Quarter since the "legends" releases. So in case you were wondering its 1 epic warcaster for each faction and a solo or 2.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:@Red_Lives - I was going to ask about that. As far as I understand, you get cards with each model (is that right?) that give you its stats, etc.

Obviously that means that unless you buy the model, you don't know what it can do!

You can get a faction deck as you point out, but that doesn't have all your options either....

Is there some kind of online resource that gives you the relevant info before you 'buy blind'?

sadly no... its really one of the major crappy things about PP.

SYR8766 gave pretty sound advice here. Personally I'd proxy before I did anything else. You'll learn a lot the first few games you play and that will determine what kind of force you want (Jack or Infantry heavy) Personally I go with a mix of both. The only two that I'd personally recommend is the Lancer (for the arc node) and a Journeyman Warcaster (for the boost in focus).

Other than that, GenCon is going on and I'd check out the PPforums for any information you'd like to get. They've been real helpful to me as far as advice and such.