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Sorry for the long post but I have a lot to say about devastators.

I think they have to be considered as the most effective unit in the game for 5th edition rules. I grant they just sit there most of the time but the fact that you can take 4 plasma cannons in a ten man marine squad makes them pretty devastating and, to me, an absolute must kill / have in a marine army.

Does anyone run a non-marine army list that will ignore a devastator squad? Nearly every game I have played in where I fielded one it was the focus of fire early in the game, the focus of fire in mid game and finally dropped off late in the game when taking objectives becomes so vital. With that much devastation available with the blast template rules in 5th why would you ignore them?

To be honest I have been contemplating getting a hold of eight more plasma cannons and or missle launchers and running three dev squads in a 2000+ point list for my heavy choices. Placed strategically how can this be stopped effectively?

Picture this list

Captain w/ twin lightning claws, jump pack, artificer
4 10 man squads tactical marines, pure vanilla, 40 bolters
3 10 man devastator squads with 2 plasma and two missle launcher per

That is about a 1750 base. From here you could build a 2000 or 2500 hundred point force that would be very hard to deal with. You could even take away a devastator squad and a few marines to create a 1750 list that would be just as difficult to deal with.

Remember when commenting that I am taking this as a core for a bigger list. I know i have to deal with infiltrating units and stuff like pathfinders.

It will have a problem against mechanized lists. Especially if someone brings a AV14 to the table. Plasma cannons do scatter and if they scatter off the hull, there is nothing that they will hurt.

If you blow up the transport the guys can hide behind it, unless your devs are elevated. There still is LOS blocking terrain in the game, I think as 5th ed wears on more and more buildings will become present on our battlefields. Also cover saves remove most of the damage from the cannons low AP.

However having said that. Knocking 70 marines off the table is not an easy feat for anyone, so your list will have some legs to get around on.

Marines with nothing but bolters? Eh?

And your list has no anti-tank.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Marines with nothing but bolters? Eh?

And your list has no anti-tank.

Well the devastator squads can blow up tanks pretty well. Blew up a couple this weekend with their plasma cannons. Even zapped one with las cannon believe it or not.

so plasmas can boom land raiders pretty easily? i dont think so. you're gona have a tought time with av 14 vehicles. mech armies have a good chance of running cirlces around you. and the low ap blast weapons are a bit weakend considering you can get coversaves from them

Captain w/ twin lightning claws, jump pack, artificer
4 10 man squads tactical marines, pure vanilla, 40 bolters
3 10 man devastator squads with 2 plasma and two missle launcher per

This army is steamrolled by mech and other fast moving armies.
It needs counter-strike units led by the Captain.
The tactical squads need special weapons.
Plasma cannons more often than not bounce off and so are pretty unreliable.

How does one stop a blast heavy army?

Well, for one thing, you pay a hefty premium for all those plasma cannons.

Second, against non-marines and non-MC; it's decidedly ineffective to toss 8 or 12 plasma cannon templates a turn.

Not when everyone has 4+ cover saves.

I find the whole thing academic right now anyway, given the new codex is coming out and I don't think this kind of build is where you'll want to go with it anyway.

I do agree Dev squads are good - Ive played about 4 games now in 5th each time with a dev squad. Before I max on Dev squads though - I max on troops. What Ive found is that its the holy bolter and assault weapons that really do the killing. Troops need to be mobile - so I give at least two squads a rhino. Running really makes the rhino not completely necessary for all squads. The ones mounted in rhinos or running get meltaguns and flamers. The Vet SGT's get a power fist, melta bombs, and either a combi-melta or a combi-flamer. With the new rule where PF-toting vet sgt's do not get the bonus for a close combat weapon - Ive found the combi-weapons a nice addition. My 2 squads that sit back use plasma cannons. Ive found lascannons not so useful. If I need to kill a vehicle, its meltaguns or melta bombs.

With all that said - I have a dev squad with 4x ML's backing them up. Im finding a need for mobile firepower, so Ill be dropping the dev's for some combination of bikes/attack bikes with melta weapons or HB's. The mobility is needed because at the end of the games Ive needed a unit to contest an OBJ - since the DEV's they spend as many turns possible stationary, using bikes lets me be mobile sooner.

To support the troops going down range I use a master and epistolary with jump packs. They stay close to the actions lending their I5 6 attacks on the charge to squads heading into close combat. Close combat is deadly now - you must win the combat - bad things happen if you dont. Close combat is the most sure way of clearing the enemy rather than sitting back and shooting. Plasma cannons are great now though - no joke.

Plasma cannons are good and will wipe marines off the table
Orcs on the other hand will just live with the damage and keep walking (so many of em).

I would drop 4 of the cannons for heavy bolters, drop the other dev squad and get you some assault marines to go with the chapplin for counter assault.
Give the marine squads special/heavy weapons.

Combat squads will really help. Being able to deal with two targets a turn with one HS slot.

Depending on points cost I forsee heavier weapons Dev squads becoming popular. I will likely take two lascannon and two missile launchers with mine. Lascannon are expensive, but taking two shouldnt cost that much, its the price of four that hurts. With the fire split you should be able to afford two expensive guns.

Uh, I would generally tend to ignore your dev squads. But then I run multiple liths, and 2 lords with orb (I like redundancy, what can I say?) Plasma can't hurt the monolith, and I'll pretty much shrug off all your missiles as well. Put them in a solid wall so you can't even see the warriors behind them, and walk forward dropping S9 AP3 templates on your other squads, forcing you to rely on your cover saves till I've wittled you down for a round or two. Then pull warriors through into rapid fire range, finish off what I can of your scoring units. Even if you do drop plasma shots onto me, between cover, and 2 WBB rolls, I'll take my chances.

I run one squad of full Plasma wich I then Combat squad. (Dark Angels) This usually either draws a lot of fire from my opponnents (usually play MEQs not many others down here except for eldar) or they wipe entire squads off the objectives they were holding. Another simmilar tactic I like is to put a Lascannon on the squad that is holding the objective in your depolyment zone. It gets to take pot shots at tanks throught the game. I find it usually earns its points back and since the squad wasn't doing anything else anyways it complements each other.

One reply to this squad is an Ork Big Mek with a Shock Attack Gun. So what's your best range shooter boys? 48". The Sag is 60" big template and AP2? Are you going to come running closer into range to shootout? The list you suggested is totally NON frightening. Devastators have decent firepower in mid ranges, but a Leman Rus, Basilisk, Hammerhead and the SAG are all better, cos they all have better range. What else can get you? Well how about Lictors, infiltrating Broodlord with friends and tentacles to suck your faces off! I think you have a better option in taking a whirlwind for fire support, give it a hunter seeker missile for AT support and spend the points on better troops and leaders in your front ranks

I layed a bloke the other week with two dev squads, (2 plaz cannons and 2 missile launchers) he set them up in ruined building either end of his deployment area. Perfect refused flank, took out one, the other was out of range

Reaver83 wrote:I layed a bloke the other week with two dev squads, (2 plaz cannons and 2 missile launchers) he set them up in ruined building either end of his deployment area. Perfect refused flank, took out one, the other was out of range

For a second there I thought you meant you laid him...

I run a 4 Plasma Cannon Dev Squad and in 5E it has become simply brutal. Most people don't expect Marines to have any big scary units. I mean they are just stock Marines, right? We've seen all this before, right? My Dev Squad's record for a single volley is causing 32 wounds (not hits, wounds!). It is usually a very nasty surprise to people who have never seen this before and I know I've been marked down on army comp in tournaments for it.

Is it expensive? Hell yes! Does it make up it's points? Almost every single game. Yes, Hordehammer is here, but all those MEQ are not going to just suddenly roll over and die, nor did they all get shoved to the back of closets. It is a bit of a waste against horde armies, and if you fought horde armies with 5+ save to exclusion of every other army in the game, then I'd avoid it and take MLs. The reality of 40K is that lots of people take expensive or elite units, yes even on Horde armies, with 4+ or better saves. Yes they may still get a nice 4+ cover save, but you're denying them their 3+ armor save.

I believe that 2 ML 2PC for 8man dev squad is the best. Take care of hordes, got enough casualty while not being underpowered, not too costly, and it has a huge killing range.

Power armor > done.
Termies > not all the time, but it should do.
Hordes > hell yea w/ 4 blast templates.
Plague Marines > passed this one
AV 10 - AV 13 > taken care of.

2 of this squads usually take care most of the job for my 1500 - 2000 points build. Just couple lascannons from other squads.

Well personally, I think that you should ditch your vanilla tactical squads, grab two small scout sniper squads, two discourage flankers/chargers. Then get some assault or bike marines to serve as flankers, and tank hunters. This combination should keep your enemies confused and reeling while you decimate them with your big gunz