Combat Squads and Outflanking

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**natedogg710**

I searched the forum and couldn't find any mention of this.

I have a Ravenwing Attack Squadron with three Bikes and an Attack Bike. Let's I put them in reserve to outflank and roll a 4 for them to come in on the second turn.

My question is how many dice do I roll for the Ravenwing Attack Squadron for which short board edge that they come on from? Do I roll one for the Attack Bike and the three Bikes, or one for each of them?

Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere.

**Stelek**

They are separate units, so you'd roll twice no?

**natedogg710**

The Dark Angels codex says this about Ravenwing Attack Squadrons, "The squadron's attack Bike and Land Speeder are purchased together with the squadron and deployed at the same time as that squadron's bikes, but then on they always operate as completely independent scoring units of one model."

I guess it depends on if moving a unit on from reserve counts as deploying it.

**Darrian13**

I think it does count as deploying it. One roll.

**Stelek**

Ah see, now it all makes sense.

Bring on the outflanking Multimelta!

**Datajax**

1, Die is rolled, and they may NOT combat squad. Codex DA pg 23 "Units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads and vise versa." Since outflanking requires you put them in reserve(No BGB for 100% accuracy) An outflanking squad may not be combat squaded.

**coredump**

Coming in from reserves, is *not* deployment. Once the game has started, deployment is over.

the attack bike is not a combat squad, it is automatically a separate unit.
Thus it is two separate rolls to come in from reserves, and separate rolls to see which side of the table they come in on.

**yakface**

Datajax wrote:1, Die is rolled, and they may NOT combat squad. Codex DA pg 23 "Units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads and vise versa." Since outflanking requires you put them in reserve(No BGB for 100% accuracy) An outflanking squad may not be combat squaded.

Ravenwing Squadrons do not use the combat squad rules on page 23.

They have their own version on page 27 and while it says it is "much like" the regular combat squad rules it is not one and the same. Most importantly it doesn't mention that the units can't be split when put into reserve.

More importantly, I agree with coredump: deployment is something that is done before the game (and apparently when a unit deep strikes too). Models moving on from reserves are not "deploying" and in fact, the reserves rules state:

"When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

The 'Arriving from reserves' rule never even uses the word deploy.

So I do believe that per page 92 of the rules you'd be able to put these units in reserve and would roll for them separately.

But this is definitely something that could use clarification from GW.

**Datajax**

Isn't the "much like" phrase on pg 27 refering to the fact that the squad's attack bikes and Land speeders are "much like" combat squads? It seems odd that the phrase comes after it describes how bike squadrons can be slipt into combat squads?

**dvdhwk**

Sorry, sorry. I know this is a bit of thread necromancy, but a similar subject came up on a local community board (adeptusarizona.com)

This would apply to any unit that can combat squad, and doesn't have a specific proscription against combat squading from reserves. The main issue for us was whether the termies out of the SM codex could combat squad while deep striking.

yakface wrote:
More importantly, I agree with coredump: deployment is something that is done before the game (and apparently when a unit deep strikes too). Models moving on from reserves are not "deploying" and in fact, the reserves rules state:

"When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

The 'Arriving from reserves' rule never even uses the word deploy.

While "Arriving from reserves" never uses the word deploy, it is used elsewhere, see below.
Here's what I wrote on out boards:

Pp. 92-3: All of the missions use the word "deploy" to place troops on the table at the beginning of the game.
P. 94 - Rolling for Reserves, second para.: "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later." (emphasis mine)
P. 95 - Deep Strike, first para.: "Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the rules for reserves and then deploy them as follows." (emphasis mine)

So for any form of moving onto the table from reserves, including deep striking, the book specifically uses the word "deploy."

So, to spell this all out:
Premise 1: A unit may break into combat squads when when that unit "deploys."
Premise 2: Arriving via deep strike is considered deployment.
Conclusion: Therefore a unit arriving via deep strike, which may legally combat squad, may do so.

So any problem with the premises based on the rules cited?

If the conclusion is correct, which I'm pretty sure it is, then this would affect units outflanking, or simply walking on from the edge. Again, assuming there is no specific proscription against combat squadding.

**yakface**

dvdhwk wrote:
While "Arriving from reserves" never uses the word deploy, it is used elsewhere, see below.
Here's what I wrote on out boards:

Pp. 92-3: All of the missions use the word "deploy" to place troops on the table at the beginning of the game.
P. 94 - Rolling for Reserves, second para.: "Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described later." (emphasis mine)
P. 95 - Deep Strike, first para.: "Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the rules for reserves and then deploy them as follows." (emphasis mine)

So for any form of moving onto the table from reserves, including deep striking, the book specifically uses the word "deploy."

So, to spell this all out:
Premise 1: A unit may break into combat squads when when that unit "deploys."
Premise 2: Arriving via deep strike is considered deployment.
Conclusion: Therefore a unit arriving via deep strike, which may legally combat squad, may do so.

So any problem with the premises based on the rules cited?

If the conclusion is correct, which I'm pretty sure it is, then this would affect units outflanking, or simply walking on from the edge. Again, assuming there is no specific proscription against combat squadding.

I agree with you and retract what I said before. Arriving from Reserves (including Deep Striking a unit onto the table) does count as 'deploying' the unit.

Therefore in the case of a unit that has the combat squad ability (in which they are split up upon deployment) you'd make one reserves roll for the unit (including one roll for which table edge they come onto for outflankers) and then once you actually deploy them is when you'd be able to split them up and have them move on separately (although both still from the same edge in the case of outflankers).