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Comments and criticism appreciated!

Jetbike Autarch with lance, fusion gun, mandihat (140)

Eldrad (210)

10 DAs incl Exarch with PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend (177)
Wave Serpent, stones, VE, TL BL (165)

10 DAs incl Exarch with PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend (177)
Wave Serpent, stones, VE, TL BL (165)

10 DAs incl Exarch with PW/SS, Bladestorm, Defend (177)
Wave Serpent, stones, VE, TL BL (165)

10 Storm Guard incl 2x flamers, Warlock with Destructor (127)
Wave Serpent, stones, TL shuricannon, shuricannon (120)

3 Jetbikes including shuricannon (76)

4 Shining Spears, exarch with Withdraw, Skilled Rider (205)

6 Harlequins with Kisses (132)
Falcon with stones, holo, VE, scatter laser, star engines (210)

Fire Prism, stones (125)
Fire Prism, stones (125)


2496 points. 7 tanks. 48 infantry. 8 bikes.


I had a unit of 7 bikes including Warlock with Embolden and spear in there initially, but decided against it. I felt that I needed to max tanks to split enemy fire. I still feel light at only 7 tanks. An all-bike list is still amongst my options, but I wanted to air this list first. In fact, I'm also considering all-infantry should this list bomb in test games.

I added the unit of 3 bikes for distraction, hatch-covering/blocking duty, mobile cover for the Spears, and another S6 weapon to shoot trukks. This seemed a better use of 76 points than more Serpent bling, even if that bling could have meant lots more shuricannons and VE for the Stormies. I'm still wondering if I screwed up there, though.

Speaking of which, I put VE on the brightlance Serpents because I'm really in trouble if I lose those anti-tank weapons. If I do lose all of them without doing lots of tank damage, I'm stuck using the Autarch's haywire grenades, Eldrad's staff, and the Warlock's witchblade to take out tanks trying to shock my Troops units off the objectives. Not fun. I decided against Dragons, as they would be less than useful against 3-monolith armies, which I expect to be common, and LR spam, where a single sure shot is worth less than lots of fairly good ones that can split fire.

Anyways, looking forward to your suggestions.

Jetbike autarch, spears, and jetbikes all look bad at 2500. So does Eldrad in a off-the-table-at-the-start army.

It just feels light for a mech list. In 2000 points, I'm running 7 tanks (and Eldrad to boot).

How have your Harlies fared? I've gotten to the point my 6 man squad gets shelved. I love how they look, but they rarely make a difference for me.

The Dragons, while not getting bonuses against Monoliths, are still AP1 (+1 on damage chart roll). T/L Brightlances just won't cut it against Monoliths (non BT Land Raiders, not as big a deal). Between the two, I prefer the Dragons over the Harlies.

You've mentioned a big worry about losing tanks early. With the Autarch, just keep your whole army in reserve. It can help you pick the right lane of attack to help ensure you can't lose tanks too quick.

Blocking hatches isn't nearly that big a deal in 5th (IIRC). I believe troops can be placed in the wreckage if their hatches are blocked. (you may want to review that section again as I'm not 100% certain).

The Vectored Engines only really matter if you move over 12". Skimmers only are destroyed from an 'Immoblized' result if they moved 'Flat Out'. Not sure if all those VE are worth it (granted, I'm still a bit new running a mech army). With some of the VE removed, you can get another Jetbike unit that can go for late game objective grabbing.

You've got 3 extra points to buy a Singing Spear for the Storm Guardian's Warlock. I've always found it worth it in the event I'm in desperate need of one more anti armor weapon.

Good luck.

If you like Eldrad mount him and a Seer Council of 10 Warlocks in a Wave Serpent. If you have the points you can throw in Yriel too. Very nasty and tough but expensive. You really don't want Eldrad standing out there all by his lonesome.

Small jetbike squads aren't very good too hard to hide. They are going to get shot. This includes Shining Spears.

I agree that Harlequins are not very good in 5th. It is not because of the rending nerf its because of no consolidation into combat so you run out of your falcon assault a unit kill it and then are standing out in the open unless there is cover with in consolidation distance to get shot up.

You might want to go with Fire Dragons in the Falcon for more anti tank. If your transporting Dragons you don't really need Star Engines or vectored engines.

I would drop the Shining Spears, and Harlequins and get a Seer Council in a Wave Serpent. Might actually need to get more points so drop Vectored Engines on the troop
Wave Serpents.

I'm not sure how much shooting you going to get out of Bright Lane wave serpents. Turn 1 you are moving flat out. Turn 2 you are droping troops and might be shaken or blown up. Turn 3 if you are still alive you probably are moving flat out to get to a better position where you are not getting shot. That leaves turn 4 to start shooting Bright Lances. If you start in reserves that gets pushed back a turn or two. Games sometimes end on turn 5.

Thanks for the input, folks!

I'll try reworking my CC unit selections, on everyone's recommendations. To create space, I will try removing the Spears and Autarch, and subbing in another assault unit.

My problem is what unit to put in there. My need is high-strength hits that penetrate armor, as far as I can see. The Spears hit that way, but keeping them alive is a problem.

I'm not terribly impressed with Seer Councils, as I've done plenty of shurikenning them to death, and had them eat bolter too many times. With no consolidation these days, they're just too vulnerable to small-arms fire, even with Fortune. Maybe I'm overreacting there: I'll playtest that setup. The Seer Council would do double duty well as an anti-tank unit. I do wonder about mixed weaponry and powers with the 5th wound allocation rules: I'll have to think this through thoroughly.

Scorps are awesome, but I need hits that penetrate armor, unfortunately. Maybe they're half of a solution, with Banshees making up the other half. Hmm. I'm not a banshee fan, but will have to consider them for that. Thing is, I prefer redundant identical units to force difficult targetting choices on the enemy, while preventing me from making plans based on single units that may go bye-bye. 24" mobility is great for swapping in survivors when their twin unit gets shot up, and with my admittedly occasionally limited in-game planning, it's nice to have backup that requires little thought.

As far as VE, I often do move flat-out with at least some units, trying to encircle an objective or a line of tanks (or when an opponent decides to turtle or something). I'll probably keep it on some units, ditch it on others for the points.

When it comes to anti-tank, I've been well served by Brightlances in the past. That's something I'll have to balance in test play (over the next- erk!- week!). I still don't think Dragons are the answer, but will look for other possibilities. I miss the easy dual-tasking of a jetbike list...

And Sarigar, thanks for the pointer on hatch-blocking. I haven't had it happen yet in 5th, and now I see why no-one has tried it. I'm still learning many of the changes as I go, usually in a nasty way during a game. This is a much more pleasant way to figure that out.

Great feedback, very helpful. That's why I come to Dakka!

To solve the Seer Council problem, drop the size a bit. All you need is a small unit, maybe 5, with Embolden, Enhance, and max out your Destructor. Pop out, Doom, Fortune, Guide (in case you get charged), and so long as the rest of your army pops out as well, the enemy will have to split fire.

As for the DA squads, I would lose the PW/SS and get the extra Shuricat shots with the DSC.

Two Fire Prisms in 2500 is a bit scant, and so is the fact that neither of them have holo-fields. They don't need the stones as much, keep them if you want, they're not bad, but in my experience, you won't be moving them all that much. Not to the point where you'll be inconvenienced by a Stun.

The bikes will get eaten. Both squads. Drop them for some more bikes or something.

If you want, a very effective mech combination is either of the following:

-10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock w/ Destructor, Farseer w/ Doom and RoWitnessing, Serpent. Pop out of your Serpent, 2 Flamers, 1 Heavy Flamer, and re-rolls to wound all around. A tad cheaper than the Avengers. EDIT: More expensive than the Avengers is you add the Seer.

-5 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ Flamer and Crack Shot, Serpent. An absolutely nasty unit, Heavy Flamer with re-rolls to wound, and 4 BS4 meltaguns. It can fry tanks, and even heavy infantry. A tad cheaper than the Storm Guardians.

The Lance Serpents should be fine, as you aren't going to have to move flat-out on turn one, thanks to the range of your Avenger Shuricats.

Anything else that comes to my attention, I'll post.