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Trying to make a decent 1500 Mech Eldar list, not sure if I'm going the right direction here.

HQ:
Eldrad - 210

Troops:
10x Storm Guardians - 272
-2x Flamer
-Warlock- Destructor
-Wave Serpent- TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones

10x Storm Guardians - 272
-2x Flamer
-Warlock- Destructor
-Wave Serpent- TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones

10x Storm Guardians - 272
-2x Flamer
-Warlock- Destructor
-Wave Serpent- TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones

5x Guardian Jetbikes - 120
-1x Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support:
3x Fire Prism - 345

Total: 1491
_______________________________

I tested this tonight, but my opponent was drop pod plasma/melta Marines, so it wasn't really a fair match at all. He'd drop in out of cover, and I'd either double-torch a unit to oblivion or drop AP3 templates on them. Since his greatest range was 24" with the plasma and bolters, it wasn't very difficult to stay out of harm's way. Dooming two different squads being flamed was very nice for racking up wounds.

I don't currently own a 5th rulebook, so not sure if Eldrad can Doom/Fortune while either in his Wave Serpent or right after disembarking. I guess that depends exactly when the psychic powers are said to happen, or if they can be cast while in a transport. Any word on this in the rulebook?

I'm also not sure how well this list would do overall. I know it'd probably utterly destroy my Tyranids lists since they're so bad at getting rid of mobile tanks and having a triple flamer in each serpent unit would pretty much end any Genestealers I had ready to nail back armor of nearby Serpents. With the new Flamer rules, I imagine this wouldn't be too bad at getting rid of other horde armies or people clinging to cover saves. Heck, they didn't do too shabby against Marines for that matter, dropping 26 wounds one a 10-man squad before pistols get to fire was pretty nice.

As always, thanks for any constructive criticism, even if it means scrapping the list.

Good lord, I make one list, everyone starts bouncing off of it...

In all honesty, I took the 2xFlamer 1xDestructor from Stelek, but hey.

One trend I see in these lists is Eldrad, and he is waaaay Overkill. Two Farseers with Doom and RoWitnessing would get the same job done for cheaper points. Your Prisms could use holo-fields, otherwise you'll run into trouble against more average lists of MEQs. Playtest this more, and make some edits. It's a solid tactic.

Eldrad is wasted in this list. He cannot be left in the backfield but should be mounted in a Serpent. I'd take a JetSeer with doom and fortune.

I'd drop Eldrad and the jetbikes, and bring a DA unit or a FD unit and do the doom/fortune seer.

Sometimes being able to stand off is a good thing.

Anyone who survives the flamer templates is probably going to be tough enough to kill you in close combat. They are few and far between, but usually when they show up there are alot of them.

Ending up without any scoring units because you burned them all up in close range fights is not exactly wunderbar.

Overwhelming "You don't need Eldrad" response, which is fair. What are better scenarios for him, though? In my test game he did great, Doomed two Marine units that were promptly turned to ash, then Eldritch Stormed one of those doomed squads to kill four before it was incinerated. At 210 points he is pretty steep, though, and doesn't have quite the maneuverability that two Doomseers with Witnessing would have and still come in at 30 points less.

Even with either the single Fortune/Doom Seer or the two Doom Seers, can they cast spells while in the transport or do I have to invest in a Jetbike? I'd really rather not bring a jetbike seer, though, since he'd be a pretty obvious target with only the tanks as the other option to shoot at.

If something is strong enough to survive the Doom + Flamer templates, how would Dire Avengers help that scenario? Their hail of shuriken shots won't cause any more wounds than the flamers + pistols. I can see throwing a squad of Fire Dragon melta shots at them to finish off whatever is getting torched to death, but I can't imagine what would both need that much killing and wouldn't be shot at by Prisms, Terminators come to mind here.

With just the flamer squads and the three basic prisms I'm at 1161 points. Of the leftover 339 points I need an HQ choice and would like a fourth troop choice, but I don't see how to fill one without either foot-sloggers or jetbike Guardians. I found the flamers to work far better when Doom was involved so I would like to be able to Doom two squads at once, which is basically why I brought Eldrad along for the ride. If I put the 180 points into two Witnessing Doomseers, that leaves 159 points, not really enough to do a whole lot more than Holo-Fields on the Fire Prisms or some Jetbikers. In fact, could go with the two Farseers as written and get a 6-man Jetbike Squad with two Cannons, putting me at 1493. Or going with Stelek's preference of dropping the Jetbikers and having a single Farseer (Doom, Fortune, Stones), I'm at 1291 points, enough for 5 Dire Avengers in a TL Lance Serpent. These guys aren't going to be accomplishing much, but it does put another Serpent on the table. Or! Could go for another double-flamer squad of Storm Guardians with no Warlock, and TL Scatter Lasers on the Serpent, bringing the total to 1498 (130 Seer, 207 Guardian squad, 1161 original list). However, this leaves me with only one Doom on the table which worries me a bit as far as flexibility and flaming more than one unit to death.

With new fifth rules, all models in transports count as beingon the table, the complete opposite to 4th, in which they werent, so couldnt take objectives are use powers.

As the seer is now 'on the table', as well as the unit hes with, he can freely do whatever he wants.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Xenith, I must've glossed over that somewhere in the rulebook.

I think I'll be staying with Eldrad, though. In the past four games he's never been out of range to doom two seperate squads of whatever I'm flaming/assaulting and all of his other benefits over a regular farseer have proven useful in various situations. He might be a little overkill, but his support has been great so far.

Perhaps you've tested Eldrad, but without testing the other options, how do you know which is better? The general hypothesis seems to lean towards the separate Farseers. Try them, at least!

You're right, I honestly have not tried with two separate Farseers. I'll give that a shot tomorrow, play a few games and see how it goes.

I think part of it is, though, that I've mostly played a couple variations of rhino-rush Dark Angels that had 5-man plasma squads in the Rhinos to rush up and shoot at my skimmers while his lascannon squads sat in the back to shoot long range. To counter this I mostly turtled in the corner, Fortuning the skimmers he could shoot at, making sure I always had cover from the few cannons in range. Eldrad's ability to double-Fortune the skimmers or double-Doom whatever poor squads got close enough jump out and flame to death.

I imagine in situations where turtling is not beneficial the dual Farseer would prove more useful for the flexibility. Hopefully I'll be playing other lists than Rhino-Rush LasPlas and Drop-pod Marines tomorrow.

Hopefully I'll be playing other lists than Rhino-Rush LasPlas and Drop-pod Marines tomorrow.

Well, a fully mech army is immune against drop podding Marine armies and it can outmaneuver Rhino rush armies. Only the Jetbikers are vulnerable against drop podders. Up to the Jetbikers I like the army, fluffy Ulthwe.

Yeah, I'm not an overly huge fan of the Jetbikers, but I honestly can't think of where to put the points they're soaking up. Then add in that they can hide all game to jet in 24" and take/contest and they actually become useful, enjoying a 3+ invul save against incoming firepower.

A question about Jetbikes, can they turbo boost 24" and then still move another 6" during assault?

Can't turboboost and still get another 6" move.

The jetbikes are great for contesting/holding objectives late in the game. I've been playing around with small units to see how it fares in 5th. I keep them in Reserve as to protect them for a few turns. I like to go second when I can and this really allows my bikes to get into good positions late in the game w/o fear of retaliation. 1-2 small squads are 66 points each, troop choices and have great manueverability. I don't lose much in the way of fire power, so it's been a win/win situation for me of late.

Eldrad in a Mech army. Unless you are really utelizing the redeployment, I don't see much use for him in this style army, especially coming in at 210 points.

Two flamers/Destructor isn't really new, but someone actually fielding 3+ units of them is looking like a 5th editon truism. I think this has to do with folks just don't have many Storm Guardians at the moment.

Kirbinator: Where do you play? I occasionally make it up to tourneys up in Raleigh/Durham area and play in Fayetteville locally.

The jetbikes are great for contesting/holding objectives late in the game.

This is a gamble. Small jetbike units die quickly. If the game ends when you turbo boost the jetbikes within 3'' of the objective, this is fine. But when the game goes on, the bikes are eventually dead.

Eldrad in a Mech army.

Its not just redeployment. He can cast fortune two times; this can be important if one is blocked by a psychic hood.

So far I've used Eldrad for dual Fortunes, Dooms, the random Mind War or Eldritch Storm as the situation arrives.

I did use the redeployment bit a couple times, always to great amusement. "Hey, what are you doing?" is a pretty consistent response.

wuestenfux wrote:

The jetbikes are great for contesting/holding objectives late in the game.

This is a gamble. Small jetbike units die quickly. If the game ends when you turbo boost the jetbikes within 3'' of the objective, this is fine. But when the game goes on, the bikes are eventually dead.

Eldrad in a Mech army.

Its not just redeployment. He can cast fortune two times; this can be important if one is blocked by a psychic hood.

I agree it is a gamble, but it is a gamble on both sides. For 66 points, I've lost very little in my actual fighting army. These only factor into contesting/holding objectives late in the game. I end up forcing my opponents to start choosing what they want to shoot at: the 3 man jetbike squad with 3+ cover/armor save or the Wave Serpents/Falcons that are now contesting my opponent's objectives.

Taken in a vacuum, sure, Jetbikes grabbing an objective is a gamble, but the key is synergy and target saturation. One thing I've been looking into is ensuring the bike won't run away; possibly adding a Warlock with Embolden. Sadly, this is now making the Jetbike unit expensive.

Something someone else just pointed out at 'You Make Da Call'. A Farseer may not be able to cast Fortune if he turbo boosts on a Jetbike. Very subtle change in the wording of Turbo Boosting. Definitely something worth looking into before automatically calling for a Farseer on Jetbike.

I use Eldrad quite a bit, but at 1500 points, he seems to be a lot of points. I concede casting Fortune twice can be key. One nice factor soon to come is Psychic Hoods having a range of 24". This may lower the necessity for being able to cast Fortune twice in one game.

Eldrad - 210

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL +stones = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

5 Dire avengers - 60 points

total troops = 770

Heavy support
Falcon + scatter laser + Holo fields + spirit stones = 175

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160
total heavy support: 495

total - 1481

I'm sure you can come up with a way to spend the last 19 points.

Eldrad and the 5 DA go in the Falcon, which recives fortune every round and whips around the battlefield at 18", casting doom, mind war, and what ever else he needs to. The DA make the falcon scoring.

yeah, the falcon+eldrad+DA = about a third of your points, but this unit should be able to withstand just about all the anti-tank firepower your opponent can levy at it at 1500, leaving your other skimmers as low priority targets. the brightlances go for the enemy tanks, the Prisms go for the heavy infantry/tanks, the storm guardians mop up light infantry.

It's not particularly uber, but it would be a fun 1500 list to play, I think. A few bad rolls in the early turns will crump this list, as it pretty much relies on the falcon surviving.

Eldrad - 210

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL +stones = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

5 Dire avengers - 60 points

total troops = 770

Heavy support
Falcon + scatter laser + Holo fields + spirit stones = 175

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160
total heavy support: 495

total - 1481

Interesting list. Storm Guardians become more and more favorable. However, I'd drop the Warlocks' shining spears as they already have destructors. The brightlances are enough antitank.

Sushicaddy wrote:Eldrad - 210

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL +stones = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

5 Dire avengers - 60 points

total troops = 770

Heavy support
Falcon + scatter laser + Holo fields + spirit stones = 175

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160
total heavy support: 495

total - 1481

I'm sure you can come up with a way to spend the last 19 points.

Eldrad and the 5 DA go in the Falcon, which recives fortune every round and whips around the battlefield at 18", casting doom, mind war, and what ever else he needs to. The DA make the falcon scoring.

yeah, the falcon+eldrad+DA = about a third of your points, but this unit should be able to withstand just about all the anti-tank firepower your opponent can levy at it at 1500, leaving your other skimmers as low priority targets. the brightlances go for the enemy tanks, the Prisms go for the heavy infantry/tanks, the storm guardians mop up light infantry.

It's not particularly uber, but it would be a fun 1500 list to play, I think. A few bad rolls in the early turns will crump this list, as it pretty much relies on the falcon surviving.

I reckon you've miscalculated there, its 1581 points in total. Taking the prisms down to bare bones should do the job.

Eldrad can cast his non-los powers out of the falcon but mind war is a shooting attack which needs los so he'll need to jump ship to do that.

djn wrote:

Sushicaddy wrote:Eldrad - 210

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL +stones = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

10 storm guardians +2 flamers +warlock +SS + destructor +waveserpent +TL BL = 272

5 Dire avengers - 60 points

total troops = 770

Heavy support
Falcon + scatter laser + Holo fields + spirit stones = 175

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160

Fire prism +holofield + Spirit stones = 160
total heavy support: 495

total - 1481

I'm sure you can come up with a way to spend the last 19 points.

Eldrad and the 5 DA go in the Falcon, which recives fortune every round and whips around the battlefield at 18", casting doom, mind war, and what ever else he needs to. The DA make the falcon scoring.

yeah, the falcon+eldrad+DA = about a third of your points, but this unit should be able to withstand just about all the anti-tank firepower your opponent can levy at it at 1500, leaving your other skimmers as low priority targets. the brightlances go for the enemy tanks, the Prisms go for the heavy infantry/tanks, the storm guardians mop up light infantry.

It's not particularly uber, but it would be a fun 1500 list to play, I think. A few bad rolls in the early turns will crump this list, as it pretty much relies on the falcon surviving.

I reckon you've miscalculated there, its 1581 points in total. Taking the prisms down to bare bones should do the job.

Eldrad can cast his non-los powers out of the falcon but mind war is a shooting attack which needs los so he'll need to jump ship to do that.

One thing that would also drop the points is to replace the BL on the WS's and give them EML. This will add yet another template and if your prisms get destroyed then you have AT for light vehicles and some medium vehicles if you use your speed to get behind. I can see this as adding even more templated death if your prisms have to focus on tanks.