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In the planning stages of starting a new army, that I want to be competitive, so I figure the people at dakka can help for that better than other places (which I have posted this list at, getting unsatisfactory results).

List designed around lots of PM in rhinos and vindis, as I really have always loved the models of those things, but never had the chance to use em in any other army.

Prince 180
wings, nurgle, wind

3 termies 105
3 combiplas

3 termies 105
3 combiplas

3 termies 115
3 combimelta, chainfist

7 DG 261
rhino
champ fist, 2 melta, icon

7 DG 256
rhino
champ fist, 2 melta

7 DG 271
rhino
champ fist, 2 plasma, icon

7 DG 266
rhino
champ pfist, 2 plasma

vindi 145
possession

vindi 145
possession

defiler 150
2 ccw

Total 1999

it looks good. just a few of things really.

you lack anti-tank. vindicators and the defiler dont count because their chance of scattering off is too high. as such all your PM squads in rhinos should have meltas.

take one big termie squad as opposed to 3 small ones, it'll save you kill points and make them harder to kill.

defilers are really too easy to kill. id swap it for another vindicator.

if your not opposed to using oblits, id swap all the vindicators for them. they are just better. if not, then vindicators are fine.

with the points you save give your PW champ a fist and give the termies some more fists or an icon.

i like it, and how does that lack anti ank weps? melta, PF, DP, 3 cannons.

i would cut the defiler out though, it will end up as scrap pretty soon in most games, oblits are great all round, just need to keep them protected.

Regwon wrote:it looks good. just a few of things really.

you lack anti-tank. vindicators and the defiler dont count because their chance of scattering off is too high. as such all your PM squads in rhinos should have meltas.

take one big termie squad as opposed to 3 small ones, it'll save you kill points and make them harder to kill.

defilers are really too easy to kill. id swap it for another vindicator.

if your not opposed to using oblits, id swap all the vindicators for them. they are just better. if not, then vindicators are fine.

with the points you save give your PW champ a fist and give the termies some more fists or an icon.

After posting the list, I realized I had over prices 2 squads by 5 pts, so, not thinking, I added a combi flamer to the rhino, but should have put a PF on. oops. Just goes to show, making lists/changes to lights at 2am isn't always the best thing.

I originally had the termies in a large 7 man squad (had mark of nurgle, not the best), but I figure, I don't play much KP anyways, most people I know avoid it or use modded rules. These little 3 man squads then provide more targets to distract from the real threat of my PM, can split their fire up on multiple targets (reason why 1 squad has combi metla), and if they die, its not that big of a deal.

Basically, enemy either ignores them, which case their second turn they charge in, killing a few guys, or a tank for the 3 squad, or the enemy focuses on them, wasting valuable shots that could be shooting my main force.

JD21290 wrote:i like it, and how does that lack anti ank weps? melta, PF, DP, 3 cannons.

i would cut the defiler out though, it will end up as scrap pretty soon in most games, oblits are great all round, just need to keep them protected.

Not to mention a chainfist, and defiler and prince in cc all will take down tanks.

About oblits, and this is for both of you, if I were to drop the defiler for 2 oblits would it be better to DS them or have them in the back feild plinking away at tanks
or tough infantry? I guess it would be a game-by-game choice really.

Originally my list was 3 vindis, but people suggested that I switch to a defiler so that once the game runs into most targets being in cc, I will be able to do something, while the vindis wouldn't be able to shoot at much.

Overall, I think I will be buying both a defiler and 2 oblits, and switching them out as I see fit.

exactly mate, you have enough anti tank weps.

it all depends on the game, main decisive one though is against daemons, allways DS, that way you can pick the best spot, out of range from a unit of daemons.

against most other armies though just set them up in a nice vantage point where they can see some heavy armour and just let them do thier thing.

Thanks again for the help.

I was thinking about it, and wondering what you think about the armies amount of tanks. The reason I wanted 3 vehicles in the HS is to provide more targets for the enemy to be able to handle effectively. That made me wonder, is 7 or 6 even enough to do that? My friend used to run 8-10 dfish/hammerheads in his 2k list.

Do most competitive forces out there have enough anti tank t effectively deal with the ammount of tanks in my army, is what I am asking.

nuclear wrote:In the planning stages of starting a new army, that I want to be competitive, so I figure the people at dakka can help for that better than other places (which I have posted this list at, getting unsatisfactory results).

List designed around lots of PM in rhinos and vindis, as I really have always loved the models of those things, but never had the chance to use em in any other army.

DG and termies should pretty much always run meltaguns (except Khorne termies, who want to fight anybody but vehicles lol). Vehicles are too dangerous.

Vindis are targets till their gun comes off. Then, they're useless.

Defilers just are useless.

Your prince is...subpar for this points level.

This is a list that is a PITA to deal with.

It's got a stronger mech theme than yours does, but still packs a wallop.

2x Sorc w/ Palanquin, Warptime, MoN, Combi-Melta.
2x 3 Termies w/Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist
2x 8 Plague Marines incl Champ w/Meltabombs, Combi-Melta, PF
4x Land Raiders

If you want a bit more 'kit' you can drop a raider but I wouldn't recommend it. It's whole point is bringing Raiders and making sure you're the only one who has them when the fights over.

To make a more balanced rhino chassis army in your theme:

1xAbaddon
3x3 Termies, HF, 2xCombi-Flamer (run all termies behind the PM rhinos)
4x8 PM, 2xMG, Rhino w/Combi-Melta
3xPred, AC, 2xLascannon sponsons

I don't run vindicators in a rush forward army (especially not with large squads, PM, or termies on my side) because I can 'oops' and suddenly a squad of my own goes away.

An alternative Predator config I'd suggest you give a try for thinning hordes is:

AC, 2xHB, 1xHavoc, DP. Costs 135 points but it pumps out alot of firepower. Where I usually frown on Preds, if they aren't your tank busting units but instead your rhinos and what is inside them are...well, it'll surprise people to learn you're playing Chaos backwards. lol

nuclear wrote:Thanks again for the help.

I was thinking about it, and wondering what you think about the armies amount of tanks. The reason I wanted 3 vehicles in the HS is to provide more targets for the enemy to be able to handle effectively. That made me wonder, is 7 or 6 even enough to do that? My friend used to run 8-10 dfish/hammerheads in his 2k list.

Do most competitive forces out there have enough anti tank t effectively deal with the ammount of tanks in my army, is what I am asking.

Yes and no. Can they stop you from moving up? No, not realistically (not most armies). Can they ignore your rhinos and kill your vindis first? Yes, if they want to.

As usual, what happens in the middle of the board will determine the winner. PM are good for controlling the middle of the tabletop.

Stelek wrote:DG and termies should pretty much always run meltaguns (except Khorne termies, who want to fight anybody but vehicles lol). Vehicles are too dangerous.

Vindis are targets till their gun comes off. Then, they're useless.

Defilers just are useless.

Your prince is...subpar for this points level.

This is a list that is a PITA to deal with.

It's got a stronger mech theme than yours does, but still packs a wallop.

2x Sorc w/ Palanquin, Warptime, MoN, Combi-Melta.
2x 3 Termies w/Combi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist
2x 8 Plague Marines incl Champ w/Meltabombs, Combi-Melta, PF
4x Land Raiders

If you want a bit more 'kit' you can drop a raider but I wouldn't recommend it. It's whole point is bringing Raiders and making sure you're the only one who has them when the fights over.

To make a more balanced rhino chassis army in your theme:

1xAbaddon
3x3 Termies, HF, 2xCombi-Flamer (run all termies behind the PM rhinos)
4x8 PM, 2xMG, Rhino w/Combi-Melta
3xPred, AC, 2xLascannon sponsons

I don't run vindicators in a rush forward army (especially not with large squads, PM, or termies on my side) because I can 'oops' and suddenly a squad of my own goes away.

An alternative Predator config I'd suggest you give a try for thinning hordes is:

AC, 2xHB, 1xHavoc, DP. Costs 135 points but it pumps out alot of firepower. Where I usually frown on Preds, if they aren't your tank busting units but instead your rhinos and what is inside them are...well, it'll surprise people to learn you're playing Chaos backwards. lol

Vindis aren't completely useless once the cannon is off, can still contest, and tankshock/ram. I know, not that great, but still something. And besides, that result is just 1/6th of the time, on a table that is 1/3rd ignored. Just as likely to loose the tank altogether or immobilized, if its a pen hit.

Could you suggest a better prince build for the points level? I'd prefer it with MoN, but not necessary (I am converting the nurgle prince model).

just a few comments on the suggested lists-can sorcerers take combi weapons?

You have meltabombs and a PF on the champs, is 1 2d6+8 hit really worth more than 2-3 d6+8 in your opinion? I usually just stick to one or the other, seems like a ot of points to spend on something the model can already do fairly well.

I agree that meltas are good on termies, and I think I'll probably switch it to 2x3 with combi melta, 3 with combi plas. Or 3x3 melta. Gotta play test the effectiveness of ds plasma.

If you think the defiler is worthless, what if it was switched out with 2 oblits?

Stelek wrote:Yes and no. Can they stop you from moving up? No, not realistically (not most armies). Can they ignore your rhinos and kill your vindis first? Yes, if they want to.

As usual, what happens in the middle of the board will determine the winner. PM are good for controlling the middle of the tabletop.

If they kill the vindis, then they got their hands full with 4 squads of DG ready to lay down some fire on them. Way I see it, and this is just a theory, enemy has to make a decision between vindi-pie plates, or untouched DG being dropped off in front of them.

Thanks for the response.

i like ur list but thats my opinion

I was thinking over the list, and wondering what you all think would be the value of not taking a defiler or oblits, but instead spending those points on 6 more DG, and a PF or LC for a termie squad.

That would let me bring the melta DG squads up to 10 men. add in 2x3 melta termies, instead of 2x3 with plasma, and I think The list may be better off. However, I do think oblits are good, and I'm torn on which way to go.

I'll probably just end up buying more DG and having the option, like with the oblits vs defiler.

Is putting Death Guard, a traditionally anvil unit, in a vehicle effective, or efficient? This isn't flippancy, I'm really just curious. I'm thinking of starting a death guard based army myself (loving that 4 land raider idea, stelek), but never even thought of mounting them.