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Preface: I haven't played WH since 5th ed came out (about 6 or 7 months actually). I have played on and off since 3rd though. Throughout that time I mostly played Necrons and SM a little. I'm trying to get back into WH and thought I'd work on a new army because I have a bunch of free time atm. Eldar seem really different from Necrons so I'm excited to give them a go. I'm looking to make a list that is both fun but fairly competitive as the friends I primarily play with run competitive armies. Feel free to rip this army apart, I will not be offended!

HQ:
- Eldrad (210)
- Avatar (155)

Troops:
- 5 Pathfinders (120)
- 10 Guardians + Star Cannon (105)
- 10 Guardians + Star Cannon (105)
- 10 Guardians + Bright Lance (110)

Elites:
- 6 Harlequins w/ Kisses (132)

Heavy Support:
- Fire Prism /w Halo Fields (150)
- Fire Prism /w Halo Fields (150)
- Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon (140)

This then leaves me enough points to either:
a) Wave Serpent + Bright Lance
b) 3 Warlocks with Conceal

The Warlocks would give the Guardians some survivability while the Wave Serpent would be taken for a Guardian Squad but once the game starts would be used for the Harlequins..and add an extra Bright Lance.

The main force (Guardians, Eldrad, Avatar, Wraithlord, Harlies) would slowly footslog forward (or stand back and shoot vs a CC army). The Fire Prisms + Rangers would adapt to the situation. If I took the Wave Serpent it could zoom the Harlies around. If I did not take the Wave Serpent I would probably make another one of the Guardian squads have a Bright Lance.

Let me know what you guys think, what the weaknesses are, if I need more anti-tank or more anti-troop, etc etc.

Looks like the makings of a good foot slogger force! Couple of critiques however (as you've asked for constructive crit) in the following points:

1. A single small unit of Pathfinders seems a little out of place and may have very restricted fireing lanes. Given the volume of troops you have, might be a thought to remove these and beef up your Harlequin unit to make them a force to be reckoned with as a counter-assault unit by adding a Shadow Seer for cover and a Death Jester for a little more fire power (he hits more often than Pathfinders and can pin).

2. Might pay to include a Dire Avenger unit with Bladestorm/Defend and Shimmershield/Power Weapon combo as a very solid tarpit. These boys can sit behind your Guardians with their extended range, assault past the guardians tying up units whilst the Harlequins come in as a counter assault move to decimate the target. I like the twin Prisms for horde control too by the way.

3. A Serpent isnt going to serve you very well considering it will make it to the enemy lines with your harlequins and be serving them up as easy kills, being only 6 of them, and not having any support until the rest of your force gets there. Best leave the serpent out of this foot slogger list really, and spend the points where they will do more damage and add to your force's center of gravity.

4. 3x Warlocks wont do all that much unless you put them on bikes with your Seer, as their survivability wont count for much, unless you stick them with your Guardians squads, but again, they wont do much more than provide some basic bonuses to the unit. Again, not to burst your bubble, but better to put these points into a solid fighting force of Avengers and beefed up Harlies to make a very nasty shooty unit backed by even nastier HtH counter-assault.

A concerning point is how much is invested in both Heavy Support and HQ, I can see the sense in the HQ side, and some in the Wraithlord, however have you considered swapping the Wraithlord out for a squad of 6 Jetbikes with 2x Shuriken Cannons? It may seem a little out of the ordinary, but this flexi-unit allows you 6xSt6 shots at range and the speed to contest/capture objectives whilst keeping the ability to dive out of harms way with their additional move. A wraithlord will only really be of use once it gets into combat range, whereas the bikes can start causing mayhem from the get-go, and better support your core unit (Anvil), acting like a hammer with the Prisms.

Hope all this helps mate! List looks to be a pretty good starting point.

I've been borrowing an Eldar army and gotten in several 5th games. Eldar are, as usual, very flexible and have a squad for just about any situation. Here is some of what our group has found with the new rules:

Star Cannons - with just 2 shots, go for a Scatter Laser instead if you have any other AP2 in the army
Fire Prisms - worse at killing vehicles, better at killing troops, and if killing troops, consider just firing 2 shots instead of TL
Harlequins - Rending got nerfed so they did too, cheaper ways to hide Maugen Ra now
Avatar - Run!
Wraithlord - Run!
Template Weapons - Guardian Defenders with 2 Flamers + Warlock with Destructor + Wave Serpent = mobile toaster
Warwalkers - 6 Guided krak missiles is always nice, 6 Guided frag missiles is now even better
Crack Shot - cover saves are everywhere now, but not against you
Scorpions - tank them up and use Outflank against gunline armies
Swooping Hawks - ok, I haven't tried them yet, we always laughed at this unit, but Haywire Grenades + Intercept are looking better and better against Land Raider spam, but of course they would then die to whatever is in there

Sample 1500 List:

HQ
- Avatar
- Farseer, Doom, Guide, Stones, Runes

Elites
- Scorpions ×10, Claw, Shadowstrike

Troops
- Rangers ×7
- Guardians ×10, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Spiritseer, Conceal
- Guardians ×10, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Spiritseer, Conceal
- Guardians ×10, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Spiritseer, Conceal

Heavy
- Warwalkers ×3, Missile Launchers ×6
- Wraithlord, Scatter Laser, Wraithsword
- Wraithlord, Scatter Laser, Wraithsword

Unless going against a horde army, run the Avatar and Wraithlords. Keep the Farseer with the Warwalkers and try to keep them hidden until they can unload. Outflank with the Scoprions and just annoy with the troops. The running MCs will draw a lot of heavy weapon fire, keeping the Warwalkers a bit safe.

Against a horde, cluster up in one corner, keep the frag missiles going, use the Guardians to shield the rest of the army, and let the Scatter Lasers clean up the dregs.

All good points you have there Wild, just one concern with the Scorpions, mainly that you have to wait for your full force to get to the enemy before deploying them (if lucky) and even then they run the risk of being obliterated piece-meal style when perhaps another unit might be more beneficial to the weight of the mobile castle. Rangers again arent all that fantastic unless you're setting yourself up for gunline defence, and you need more than two squads to make them truely effective (otherwise alternate options are better suited).

Thanks for the input so far guys.

Yeah I was planning on putting the warlocks with conceal in each of the guardian squads.
Morachi, I can see how the pathfinders are a bit out a place, guess I just included them because I own 5 and I find snipers to be amusing, even if not a great unit.
Perhaps working in some Dire Avengers, as you said, would be more useful. But if they are hiding behind the Guardians (getting a cover save I presume is what you are suggesting) doesn't that also mean that what they are firing at gets a cover save? (Unless I read the new rules wrong). However, I guess because the Guardians can move and fire their heavy platforms it won't be too much of a deal.
I can also see the Wave Serpent not doing much... I put it in as an option for an extra Bright Lance basically and to give the option late game to rush for an objective.


I calculated the points and yeah it may prove more economical to have a Farseer (155) with the powers Wildstorm indicated instead of Eldrad (210) because I would be paying 55 points for 1 better save and 1 toughness (which I don't think will make much if any difference in the game) and the 1 extra power a turn won't be needed if I'm playing smart.

Wildsotrm, I like the list but wouldn't it run into trouble against a heavy mec army? 6 guided kracks will obliterate low armor vehicles but how am I going to take down big stuff like with armor 13/14? Also the warwalkers are rather fragile so if they go down...?
What else works well against armor? If War Walkers are they way to go then I'll consider them but I don't particularly like the figures (I want to be able to compete but also not paint a bunch of stuff I have no interest in). If I was sticking to something near my proposed list I have the 2 Fire Prisms that can fire 2 S9 1 guided blast, or S10 twin-linked blast that could harm a vehicle but I think they would be better served by blowing up lots of troops. I'm thinking I need some Bright Lances, but where could I stick them in? They are easy to place with the Guardians but with their low BS something that gets more shots (such as the scatter laser) would probably be better. I can but 1 on a Wraithlord and then also use the prisms when really needed to take down armor...but is that enough anti-vehicle in 1500?

As far as the scatter laser vs star cannon argument (if I did the math right):
Scatter Laser: 12 shots, 6 hit, 5 wounds. With 6 save or less 5 kills, with the typical 3+ marine save 1.65 kills.
Star Cannon: 6 shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds. With 6 save or less 2.5 kills, with the typical 3+ marine save 2.5 kills.
So yeah I agree scatter lasers might be the way to go because vs units with no or a low save I'll be killing twice as much and vs units with a decent save I'll be killing less than one guy less (heh).
Yet I'm also thinking that the majority of armies (especially the popular ones like SM) have a save better than 6+ so killing the hordes of saveless units won't matter much. What have you guys had more luck running?

Again, thanks for the input! I want to make sure I make a decent force.

SuperCow, completely understand with wanting to use your units, in the case of Pathfinders, keep them back a bit and make sure you have a good height advantage with as many firing lanes as possible to cover your troops for their advance

With the Dire Avengers, you can move them forward right behind your Guardians, I'm not entirely sure how you'd get away with it, but i'd imagine making the most of your movement phase to position them correctly would be the go in any case, just make sure they are far enough back that they get the initiative on the charge, along with your Harlequins! Putting a Spear with your Warlocks and Seer should see of any armour at close range, and I'd stick with your idea of the twin Prisms, they should do alot of damage as it is

The custom Seer is the way to go unless you want to cast Fortune on a couple of units, but you may be able to create a single file move where the units behind get cover saves anyway, thus maximising your castle's survivability, trick is not grouping them up too close to cop a thrashing from blasts naturally. You're correct in your thoughts about War Walkers being very fragile, especially due to the squadron rules now allocating hits, these are better in larger games where you have more to fall back on should they go down earlier than expected. Shall have a think about what to replace these with, hell just to laughs, wack in an Imperial Armour night Spinner!... 7" template St6... plus trasport capabilities if needed.

Not everyone plays marines, and there's not much you can do against everyone having 4+ cover saves except for massed fire. You'll kick yourself for not taking scatter lasers against hordes.
Two prisms means that at some point you're going to be able to put down an AP 3 large blast template, and cover taken into consideration that's worth a few turns of starcannon shooting against marines. Just allow one round in your gameplan to put a pie-plate on your opponent's marine command squad, and then you can clean up with massed laser fire. IG know this trick, it's just waaaay easier with battlecannons. Remember though, that the prisms just need line of sight - unlimited range on the beam linkage as far as I know. Putting one behind cover can deter your opponents from flanks, and in aligning his advance you still retain your mobility if it's needed.

Wave serpents with brightlances are easy to underestimate, but remember that investing points in BS 3 is an average bet.

And Harlequins can be a liability.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Not everyone plays marines, and there's not much you can do against everyone having 4+ cover saves except for massed fire. You'll kick yourself for not taking scatter lasers against hordes.

Good point, I forgot how prevalent 4+ cover saves are in 5th now, much reducing the effectiveness of star cannons.

So the prisms can shoot down tanks if they must, a Wraithlord would have a Bright Lance...but I'm worried that I need more than this. Instead of the Serpent should I give a Bright Lance to one of the Guardian Squads? I know BS3 isn't too exciting but I am feeling a need to fit more in somewhere.

Why are Harlequins a liability? What about adding a shadowseer to increase survivability?

Two prisms are VERY good at tank killing... but against armour spam you're not well off. S6 Heavy 4 weapons are okay against truck and rhino rushes, but anything AV12 and up is a problem there...

Harlequins are a liability without a shadowseer, and shadowseers are too expensive. 5+ invul is pretty meh in CC with nothing else. That's just my opinion. Fire dragons, on the other hand, have fusion guns. And are 16 points a model. They can kill anything and don't need to roll 6's to ignore armour. There's your extra anti-tank unit too.

SuperCow, you shouldn't run into that much armor 13/14 at 1500 points. If you do, run the MCs straight at it. With the new vehicle damage table, I'm having more luck with MC assaults than Bright Lances. That's also why I'm leaning toward a cheap weapon on the Wraithlords so that they can run if needed or fire mass shots against a horde. I splurg on the Wraithsword because if you only have 2 attacks, you can't afford for them to miss.

I also agree with Arctik about the Fire Dragons. They are one of my favorite units. Load a bunch up in a Wave Serpent and you have a mobile death squad. The Exarch flamer is free and Crack Shot is a must. Nice to deply in front of two gunlines, fire at the far line, they don't get a cover save, and the flamer hits both lines.

SuperCow wrote:As far as the scatter laser vs star cannon argument (if I did the math right):
Scatter Laser: 12 shots, 6 hit, 5 wounds. With 6 save or less 5 kills, with the typical 3+ marine save 1.65 kills.
Star Cannon: 6 shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds. With 6 save or less 2.5 kills, with the typical 3+ marine save 2.5 kills.

While those numbers are correct, here are the ones you missed.
Scatter Laser: 12 shots, 6 hit, 5 wounds. With 4+ cover 6+ save 2.5 kills, With 4+ cover and 3+ marine save 1.65 kills.
Star Cannon: 6 shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds. With 4+ cover 6+ save 1.25 kills, With 4+ cover and 3+ marine save 1.25 kills.

So the thing is that in 3 out of these 4 situations (light armor with no cover, light armor with cover, heavy armor no cover, and heavy armor with cover), the scatter laser is the better weapon. That is why most people take them over the star cannon. Now, if you find that you are normaly shooting things with 3+ or 2+ saves that are not in cover, then the star cannon is the way to go. However, most of the time (in my experience at least) this is not the case.

Yeah, as I said "Good point, I forgot how prevalent 4+ cover saves are in 5th now, much reducing the effectiveness of star cannons."
Thanks for all the comments guys. I'll work on changing the army around a little bit.

Wildstorm, your dragon vs gunline tactic is flawed, the far line would get a cover save, as 'crack shot' applies only to the exarch, not the unit.