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They seem to have all the bases covered. Shootie as heck, initiative 5, AP3 templates, Lash

What army is their Achilles heel?

kaiservonhugal wrote:They seem to have all the bases covered. Shootie as heck, initiative 5, AP3 templates, Lash

What army is their Achilles heel?

They don't have one. They are unbeatable. No tactic or character can overcome their might

Well... maybe Eldrad. He is a pain in my ass.

They don't have one. They are unbeatable. No tactic or character can overcome their might

Well... maybe Eldrad. He is a pain in my ass.

It's pretty easy, if you know what to look for. The first couple of things to notice is that they're Slaaneshi Space Marines, and the second thing to notice is the Lash of Submission.

The thing about Slaaneshi Space Marines, particularly of the Noise Marine variety, is that they pay through the nose for +1I, which is no defense against shooting, and no defense against enemies with I3- anyways (such as troops with Power Fists). Their cost, particularly when souped up with Blastmasters, means that they're even more vulnerable to AP3 weapons than regular Marines are, and every Marine they lose will hurt.

Since they're expensive, they'll have small squad sizes. Abuse this to kill off dangerous members of the squad such as Blastmaster wielding goons, and Champions. As usual saturation of fire can be more effective than a bit of high quality fire, particularly in forcing expensive and valuable models to take saves.

The Lash of Submission is handy, but pretty over-rated, particularly on Daemon Princes. It only has a range of 24", requires a line of sight, requires a psychic test, and cannot be used in hand to hand combat or on vehicles.

Notice a theme? Slaaneshi armies have trouble with vehicles, particularly AV14 tanks toting AP3 pie-plates.

Tactics-wise, don't go half-assed. Pick a unit of Slaaneshi stuff and make it die, and then move onto the next. If you're going to close for the assault, either assault everything, or make sure that your troops won't be left stranded in their cross-hairs.

They're shooty as heck, so deny them that advantage by either picking them off one by one from vehicles (and they're usually all Fearless so you can't bunk on failed morale tests), flooding them with targets, or flooding them in combat. Similarly deny the Lash by either killing it with fire, swarming it in close combat, or maxing your mechanization. I5 means as much as I4 against a well protected Power Fist, or a horde of I3- troops.

Nurglitch wrote:It's pretty easy, if you know what to look for. The first couple of things to notice is that they're Slaaneshi Space Marines, and the second thing to notice is the Lash of Submission.

The thing about Slaaneshi Space Marines, particularly of the Noise Marine variety, is that they pay through the nose for +1I, which is no defense against shooting, and no defense against enemies with I3- anyways (such as troops with Power Fists). Their cost, particularly when souped up with Blastmasters, means that they're even more vulnerable to AP3 weapons than regular Marines are, and every Marine they lose will hurt.

Since they're expensive, they'll have small squad sizes. Abuse this to kill off dangerous members of the squad such as Blastmaster wielding goons, and Champions. As usual saturation of fire can be more effective than a bit of high quality fire, particularly in forcing expensive and valuable models to take saves.

The Lash of Submission is handy, but pretty over-rated, particularly on Daemon Princes. It only has a range of 24", requires a line of sight, requires a psychic test, and cannot be used in hand to hand combat or on vehicles.

Notice a theme? Slaaneshi armies have trouble with vehicles, particularly AV14 tanks toting AP3 pie-plates.

Tactics-wise, don't go half-assed. Pick a unit of Slaaneshi stuff and make it die, and then move onto the next. If you're going to close for the assault, either assault everything, or make sure that your troops won't be left stranded in their cross-hairs.

They're shooty as heck, so deny them that advantage by either picking them off one by one from vehicles (and they're usually all Fearless so you can't bunk on failed morale tests), flooding them with targets, or flooding them in combat. Similarly deny the Lash by either killing it with fire, swarming it in close combat, or maxing your mechanization. I5 means as much as I4 against a well protected Power Fist, or a horde of I3- troops.

Ok, I know Nurglitch suggests shooting them off the table when you first start reading this. That is a bad idea, their shooting is probably much better than yours. Assaulting them is also probably not as good of an idea because of their higher initiative. Slaanesh CSMs also don't have trouble with vehicles at all and most don't run DPs with lash, they run Sorcs with Lash. If your actually playing a Noise Marine army that either A. Has a good list or B. knows what he is doing (and by that merit will have a good list) he might destroy you with the advice listed above.

You can fight them with AP 3 pie plates though, those work. If the oblits don't notice the plate wielding vehicle then it should be killing some Noise Marines. Stay in cover too and if you have I5 or better go ahead and assault them. It is a very difficult army to play against.

But I wish you luck, they are unbeatable

Well, much better shooting is not necessarily true. They have bolters that can fire an extra shot at 12-24" range if they move, two extra if they stay still. It's still bolters. The Blastmaster is, in many respects, no better than a plasma cannon, and costs more. Mass fire back at the NMs will drop them as fast as it would any other MEQ.

Guard, for instance, will often have the heavy weapons to seriously whittle down NM squads, and they lose effectiveness as the squad size goes down. So would dakkafexes, dark lance spam, missile launcher spam, pretty much anything that has range larger than 24".

If you assault NM, do it with something that's a bit durable, or with something that's already I3. Sure, they hit first, but with bp+ccw, so two attacks base at S4. Squads are usually small due to their high point cost. Against, for instance, an assault squad, they won't do that much damage.

Lash is annoying, but that's why you put in psychic hoods, RoW, Shadow in the Warp, and so on. Plus, on Princes, they have to be within 24", and in LoS, so they can be shot.

Also, the 6-9 Oblits that every player seems to take will make your life a lot harder than the noise marines ever will.

Playing eldar, I outshoot them. A squad of dark reapers will mow down a squad of noise marines a turn. They lose a little effectiveness as the squad size goes down, but so long as the exarch is alive, he can do tremendous damage by himself. War walkers also pour huge amounts of fire into noise marines and can do it from 36 inches away. Since they can move and shoot, the 36" gap isn't that difficult to keep and a 24" gap is easy. The basics though is simple, stay out of their kill zone and keep them in yours using superior range. In the case of marines, devistator squads are your friend (heavy bolter or plasma cannon, which ever you prefer). If you got dark eldar, go with lance spam. If you are playing necrons, destroyers. The list goes on and on but you get the point.

As for lash. You got 2 options. Kill the guy carrying it (not too hard if he's a huge deamon you can single out) or you can try to negate it with things like psy hoods or runes of warding or whatever your army has.

I think Phoenix is right, Eldar are the worst matchup for Slanesh armies. They shoot better than NoiseMarines and they shut down the lash.

Send in the terminators.
They do supprisingly well against slanesh foes.

Typeline wrote:But I wish you luck, they are unbeatable

As an Emperor's Childrens Player I can say this is rubbish. Eldar are a nightmare for us, and Infantry Orks don't have too much trouble either. You simply can not kill enough Orks before they get across the table at you.

Slaanesh armies are quite beatable.

Take 3 Demolishers. Take an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with a psychic hood and daemonhammer as well as a retinue with 1 warrior, 1 familiar, and some more familiars for ablative wounds. Give him a Land Raider. Take Light Infantry and Chameleoline doctrines.

Now your guys walk plasma guns on the table edge with a threat range of 18" both sides. Your Inquisitor laughs and laughs and laughs at your opponent's lash attempts. Your Demolishers pummel the crap out of his deployment zone. Your Inquisitor walks up to his Daemon Prince and kicks the living spit out of him with his at-initiative-thunderhammer. When he shoots a squad you go to ground because you've got like 9 more that can shoot anyways. You laugh at his return fire with 2+ cover saves on 100 guys and keep pouring shots into his dudes.

Or at least, that's how I'd do it.

I have to say from my experience playing my slanesh / tzeentch lists, that they are tough to beat. We rock against meq armies. blastmasters + lash can be devastating to an opponent. Add a vindicator utilizing a well placed lash can also be devastating. Heck, even the oblits plasma cannons utilizing lash against TeQ armor is awesome. Despite all this I have had huge problems with lack of numbers, and ap3 templates. Prism pie plates are very deadly, and last game I played against horde orc boyz, I got stomped. Theres just too many boyz! Lastly, the worst I have been beaten by is Daemons. They shrug my blastmasters with invulnerable saves, and get into close combat extremely fast by deep striking near plague bearers with icons. Their flamers of tzeentch also rip through my +3 armor instantly. Squads of 10 even just decimated by those flamers in one blast. Way too many daemons on the board with weapons that can tear +3 armor to shreds. Shoot a blastmaster at a squad of plaguebearers and their +5 invul 4+ fnp just shrugs it off. So yeah... there you go

i think the cheapest and easiest way to beat them is transports
sonic weapons cant hurt them and if you can assault they aren't much better than regular marines

Thanks for the replies. I have limited experience playing against them - this will go along way. My intent wasnt to come across as whining or saying theyre an abusive list, Choas needs a list thats dead hard considering the new codex. I just wanted to hear whats worked for others. thanks

I was being sarcastic...

Edit: But no seriously, it's a 'ard list.

Typeline wrote:They don't have one. They are unbeatable. No tactic or character can overcome their might

I was being sarcastic...

Edit: But no seriously, it's a 'ard list.

Now I don't like to criticize, but while being sarcastic is fine, being singularly unhelpful is not especiallly when yo say the same thing over and over, I'm sorry but that's just not cool to do when someone's asking for advice


this is asampel of quotes for those who are confused by the message

Eldar can slap Slaneesh silly,

Which is right too, since the birth of Slaneesh was the moment of the grat fall of the Eldar.

Start off with three Fire Prisms! Hows that for shooting up AP3 darlings!

Then throw in Phoenix Lord Jain Zar! Who said that a keeper of secrets is the fastest thing in the game. She's 7 iniative base, 10 with banshee mask and plus one for ferocious charge. Iniative 11. I think that has those "lightning fast" iniative 5 dudes covered somewhat. Strength 7 on the charge, she only gets a measly five attacks, not like Abaddon, but strength 7 power weapon and a STR5 AP3 assault 3 'shooting" boomerang attack at BS 7 on the way in isn't hurting her chances is it!

as for troops why guardians? why not real shooters?
Then of course pathfinders, in decent sized squads, say eight to a bunch. AP 1 on fives and sixes. Nothing that Slannesh fields is worrying them, a lash lashes 24", they are shooting out the daemon princes eyes at 36, while Jain Zar wave serpents in with 10 banshhes and makes her point.

3 prisms, 48 pathfinders. Jain Zar in a wave serpent with friends.

I'm too tired to think out tactica or sort the army properly, but this rough idea should suffice as to one possible answer to Slaneesh.

Another would be a couple of Hive tyrants with implant attacks and tooled to the teeth for CC with three tyrant guard each. They have whips too you know! So how many attacks do you get? How many do we get! Implant attacks and all your characters are dead! Squad breaks, runs, dies.... REPEAT. Psychic scream on the tyants and ao three zoantropes as well, all coming together, giving you -5 morale on those brave chaos leadership roles! Hormagaunts in large numbers up front so that you have to lash the gaunts and bring them closer in the first round. After that you are in CC and hey! Lash 5 psychic screams mother bucker!

Simplicity: two cc toooled up tyrants, six tyrant guard, 3 zoans 800 points worth of hormagaunts.

Its a fair point to note that the Daemon Prince is on-par or better than the tyant, but toxic miasma, and multiple lash whips nerf the DP attacks and implant attacks are really like gold in this situation. If the zoantropes aren't taken out 5 cumulative psychic screams will rip the morale out of the Slaneesh army, and he who breaks first loses.

Would be a good fight. But hormagaunts are too fast and I'm sure the nids will fair well.

Would the scream work well on a fearless unit though? The unit would lose more models based on how bad they lost their morale check by right?

Anyone in retrospect and knowing your army list to the T can throw down a bunch of theoretical crap that will beat your list, but if your doing a take on all comers Emperor's Children list, it is really quite good. Do 4 units of 10 with sonic weapons, nine oblits and a two lash sorcs and your good to go. I think you'd have a few points left over even in a 2000 pts list. Maybe something like

11x Noise Marines w/ Sonic Weapons
11x Noise Marines w/ Sonic Weapons
9x Noise Marines w/ Sonic Weapons
Rhino
9x Noise Marines w/ Sonic Weapons
Rhino
3x Oblits
3x Oblits
3x Oblits
Sorc, MoS, LoS
Sorc, MoS, LoS, Personal Icon

The Sorcs go in the 9 man Rhinos the other hoof it. The Oblits can DS to the PI sorc.

Or you can drop the rhinos and give the sorcs wings and both can get personal icons and melta bombs and even the squad numbers out to 4x10

Fearless armies laugh at Psychic Scream. Oh dear, we have a minus 5 to our leadership checks, which we never take. Whatever will we do? Fearless units lose models based on how bad the combat went, not how scary our opponents are.

As for implant attack, miasma, and lash whips, sure, if a Prince is stupid enough to charge a full unit of tyrant and guard, he'll get his butt handed to him. One-on-one, he has a pretty good chance to take out the Tyrant, but that's still not exactly what he's designed for. That's what the obliterators are going to be shooting as the Nids slog their way across the field.

Slaanesh has always been a glass hammer type of army. They can hit harder than others (perhaps not as hard as Khorne in cc, but much much better in shooting), but really are often no more durable (or even weaker) than other units, for often more expensive units. If anything puts concentrated effort into hurting a squad, it will go down - they're still just MEQs. Kind of like daemonhunters.

sourclams wrote:Take 3 Demolishers. Take an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with a psychic hood and daemonhammer as well as a retinue with 1 warrior, 1 familiar, and some more familiars for ablative wounds. Give him a Land Raider. Take Light Infantry and Chameleoline doctrines.

Now your guys walk plasma guns on the table edge with a threat range of 18" both sides. Your Inquisitor laughs and laughs and laughs at your opponent's lash attempts. Your Demolishers pummel the crap out of his deployment zone. Your Inquisitor walks up to his Daemon Prince and kicks the living spit out of him with his at-initiative-thunderhammer. When he shoots a squad you go to ground because you've got like 9 more that can shoot anyways. You laugh at his return fire with 2+ cover saves on 100 guys and keep pouring shots into his dudes.

Or at least, that's how I'd do it.

Just yesterday I fought a Slaaneshi gunline with my guard, and i used pretty much the same tactics. Guardsman with 3+ or 2+ cover, the psychic hood makes the lash a non-dependable item, and the AV 14 is uncrackable by the Noise marines. It works wonders- I tabled my opponent. One question however- the daemonhammer. It may sound silly- but i didn't think the daemon princes had daemon as their unit type, thus being unnefected by the hammer? Am i wrong on this?

pure slaanesh armies arent to hard. theyre models are very expensive and will die to dedicated fire like a girly marine. lash is a pain but runes of warding keep it under wraps and a psychic hood helps. all in all its like playing a marine army that has had too much sugar. they can hurt you very quickly, but run out of energy quickly and so dont have the survivability to go the distance.

the problem arises when people take noise marines and lash carriers in other armies (which you should be doing if you're a sensible chaos player). with the survivability of plague marines and the everything-killing ability of obliterators the army becomes a bit harder to crack.

against pure slaanesh, weight of fire works well. lots of guard with heavy bolters (they will be in cover so your lascannon and MLs mean nothing), heavy tanks and MCs are all good. eldar will screw up the psychic powers and arent really bothered by the +1I or the extra shooting.

you can probably beat pure slaanesh if you think about it a bit. beating a good mixed chaos list is harder though.

Iboshi2 wrote:
Just yesterday I fought a Slaaneshi gunline with my guard, and i used pretty much the same tactics. Guardsman with 3+ or 2+ cover, the psychic hood makes the lash a non-dependable item, and the AV 14 is uncrackable by the Noise marines. It works wonders- I tabled my opponent. One question however- the daemonhammer. It may sound silly- but i didn't think the daemon princes had daemon as their unit type, thus being unnefected by the hammer? Am i wrong on this?

Nope your not wrong. There are only 2 demons in the game in right now (besides the demon codex which I haven't read) lesser demons and greater demons. DPs aren't demons as far as that hammer is concerned.