Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,
I'm wondering if it's also possible to make a somewhat competitive Dark Elf list without any monsters (so no hydra, dragon and manticore)
So the theme would be more based on warriors, executioners and black guard plus shooting and the occasional cold one chariot/cavalry.
Will it fare well? I know that the high elves are a bit better in this due to their ASF, but I hope that their dark brethren ain't that much worse.

Thanks for any opinions!

Greets
Schepp himself

I played vs. one a few weeks ago with 4 block of spearelves, an elite (the stubborn ones), a bunch of dark riders, a few harpies some chariots, rbts and it was very competitive.

The key was he kept his characters at a minimum (1 level 4, 1 level 2).

I don't think that going all infantry is feasible because the dark riders and harpies are so important to disrupting the enemy.

IMO It can be done, DE spearmen are dirt cheap at 7 points/model. Black guard are devasting with the magic banner of Hag Graf. Excutioners are good, with a little surpise inside. Corsairs are great for what they can do and repeater crossbowmen can actually have CR. Shades are annoying and witch elfs can be nasty with all those posion attacks. Also the special charcters for certain units can really tip the scales. So yes IMO a all DE infnatry list could be very nasty.

Yeah I think a DE infantry list backed up with the cauldron of blood can be great...oh god thats a lot of killing blow attacks from witches. Blackguard are a great unit to hold the center and spearmen are so cheap that a couple full blocks of 25 is feasible. The chariot is also really really good, just thought i'd add that.

Good to hear that. I'm not compelled by the cavalry whether dark riders or cold ones, but the price of the riders are what troubles me.

The banner of hag graef sprung to my eye too, but I figured that if the black guard unit charged, it wouldn't have an impact that often due to their high Initiative. The armor piercing banner was my banner of choice then, but it depends on the role you want them to play I guess.

Oh, and the Chariot screams nasty as well, is there a similar devastating chariot out there?

Greets
Schepp himself

Easily possible.
youll need 4 or so blocks of spearmen and 4 more elite blocks (smaller units though) and it can do very well.

Effective infantry list is certainly possible; the spearelves are cheap(ish), the black guard an excellent tarpit unit (with some nice hitting power), and the x-bow elves are a nice shooting unit. You'd do well to add some counterpunches to the list, though, such as hydras or chariots, and a bsb of course.

I think it would be great against targets T4 and lower with moderate armor saves. Really, I see all those spearmen not doing much against +2 armor save heavy calvary or T5+ monsters. That being said, I think the biggest pitfall of the dark elf army book staying away from tons of fancy upgrades. Yeah, they do cool stuff and offer lots of power but they reduce the numbers (and therefore the effectiveness) of your spearmen and whatnot.

The key IMHO to winning with infantry DEs are assassins.

They are absoultely insane and their only real weakness will be against armour save 2+ troops/cav as they won't be able to get through the armour, or high T multiwound monsters due to difficulty wounding them.

I had the misfortune of playing against a DE infantry force (1 unit of darkriders)

As I advanced the repeater x-bows threw out a huge number of shots.
The shades march blocked me.
I finally got into his corsairs only to find an assaissin with 8 or 9 attacks (corsairs had banner of hydra)
Another assassin was in the shades and held me in combat for 3 turns before I finally broke them thanks to rank bonus.
Shadowblade was killing my warmachines. :(

An all round tourney list (no SCs) would be:
Level 4
Level 2
BSB
Corsairs with banner hydra + assassin
x2 repeater crossbow units (assassin if have points)
Black guard + assassin (BSB here)
3 units spears (2 with assassin)
2 units shades (one with assassin)
x4 repeater bolt throwers
Harpies if can fit.

You can move forward, castle and shoot, no one can cry cheese as you are all low St, Low T.
You will struggle vs dragons and other giant monsters but 4 RBTs should help.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The key IMHO to winning with infantry DEs are assassins.

They are absoultely insane and their only real weakness will be against armour save 2+ troops/cav as they won't be able to get through the armour, or high T multiwound monsters due to difficulty wounding them.

I had the misfortune of playing against a DE infantry force (1 unit of darkriders)

As I advanced the repeater x-bows threw out a huge number of shots.
The shades march blocked me.
I finally got into his corsairs only to find an assaissin with 8 or 9 attacks (corsairs had banner of hydra)
Another assassin was in the shades and held me in combat for 3 turns before I finally broke them thanks to rank bonus.
Shadowblade was killing my warmachines. :(

An all round tourney list (no SCs) would be:
Level 4
Level 2
BSB
Corsairs with banner hydra + assassin
x2 repeater crossbow units (assassin if have points)
Black guard + assassin (BSB here)
3 units spears (2 with assassin)
2 units shades (one with assassin)
x4 repeater bolt throwers
Harpies if can fit.

You can move forward, castle and shoot, no one can cry cheese as you are all low St, Low T.
You will struggle vs dragons and other giant monsters but 4 RBTs should help.

1st and foremost a direct quote from the DE codex: Each DE "infantry" unit (except harpies) may include a single assassin: So with that being said a assassin cannot be attached to a reaper bolt thrower because it is classifed as a warmachine. Here is a easy fix for all those 2+armour saves worked well today for me against brets my assassin racked up 6 knight kills and 1 paladin kill with this combo. Rune of Khaine d3 extra attacks. Touch of Death killing blow. With a extra hw you are guranteed 5 attacks a turn sometimes 7 if the dice gods are with u. Seeing how corsairs are allowed only a magic banner worth up to 25 points i dont know how your friend used the hydra banner seeing how it cost 75 points. Actually there are two banners that cost more then 50 points and im looking at the codex right now and the highest magic banner any unit can carry is 50 points. Huh that seems a little odd to me how the heck are you suppose to field those banners if none of the units can carry a magic banner over 50 points??

The BSB was in the corsair unit.
Alosn with assassin
Along with Lokir.
:(

Touch of death is indeed helpful, especially with the secnd chance rolls thanks to hatred.

If I knew I was going up against heavily armoured opponents I'd be using it.

Guess that would explain it, with a assassin ex-hw Runes of khaine and touch of death a maximum of 8 attacks for the 1st turn of combat and a minimum of 6!! might try that one once i get the rest of DE bought and ready for battle.

They had the frenzy banner, not the hydra banner- my mistake.

Also getting home to my army book I ran the numbers and my original list was WAY too undderpriced for models so:

Level 4
Level 2
BSB
3-4 assassins where you want
x2 repeater crossbow units
3 units spears
1 units shades
x4 repeater bolt throwers
6 Harpies

Boring as all hell but the assassins give the necessary punch to the rank and file units.