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Nothing that can shoot except Soul Grinders, but with a BS 3 it's usually futile...

How do Daemons deal with the likes of Rhinos, Wave Serpents, etc.?
Your opponent can just keep all his infantry in transports and what are you going to do?

6's to hit in assault...with few attacks = lose

daemon princes with wings are too costly with too few attacks and specifically hunting tanks is not really what I want them for, and screamers are SO fragile how can you expect them to ever get to a vehicle?

other MC's, blood crushers, or other decently strengthed units are just far too slow...

what do you do?

Your first major option is the use of suicide flamer squads to use their 'automatically glance on 4+, no cover saves allowed' shooting to either immobilize the tanks or slow them down long enough for your slower troops to catch up.

Your second major options are fiends and seekers for chasing down infantry and light tanks.

Hitting in the rear armour is killer. Things with high strength with many attacks will cause havoc, especially MCs and rending creatures.

Winged DPs could do quite well.

Bolt of change, Take phglem on the SGs

Since you hit against rear armor, the best thing to do is to try to surround transports completely, and bring in one of the big beasties or high strength units to finish the transport off. The enemies inside will be forced to "emergency disembark" or just die outright, which will prevent them from retaliating against you in the next turn.

Alternatively, Tzeentchian Sniper Demon Princes shoot pretty darn well, as do flamers.

I am building my DP to be the tank killer of my army. I figure it is one of my only options for that.

my advice since you dont want winged DP's are screamer units, nothing like a unit of flying melta bombs
2 units will take out enough armour if you keep them away from shooting.

I find even basic troop units like daemonettes or bloodletters can deal with them, most are armour 10/11 on the rear, so a bloodletter is S5 on the charge, with enough of them you'll break it, and with daemonettes, you roll a 6 your on 9, so you can get up to 12! perfectly good!

Screamers can keepup with just about any fast transport and Meltabombs + always rear armor = bad day for transport.

Actually, Khorne dogs are your best transport hunters.

Against AV10 rear vehicles they absolutely crush, special with the special character. The dogs are fast enough to get there, are relatively cheap and can charge through terrain which vehicle usually have to inefficiently circumnavigate.

At that S5 and 6 attacks are more than enough. Also, the 12" charge lets you wrap around a lot of vehicles to trap the squads inside.

If you are talking about AV14 vehicles, we then it's a whole different story. I like blood thirsters and soul grinders, but it's definately a tough debate.

Pete

Bloodthirster with Skarbrand

re-roll misses in hth, 2d6 penetration

Screamers of Tzeentch. T4, 4+ invulnerable save, melta bombs, only 16 points each, move like jetbikes, and you can take up to 12 in a squad. Vehicles go bye bye. Only thing you're going to have difficulty with is monoliths. Even land raiders will find it hard to deal with 8+2d6. The vehicle is shooting you? 4 toughness isn't bad, and you can shrug off their large weapons. And you don't get cover saves from CC. The only reason I'm really considering soulgrinders for anti-tank is for the new scout speeder the SMs are going to be getting, that supposedly can cancel out your icons and double your deviation. Like daemons don't have enough problems as is.

The only downside on screamers is that you have to expect to lose a few each round even when you do take out the vehicle. But while they last, it's all good.

The fun part being in 5th that if you immobilize the vehicle (or if it doesn't move away), the screamers aren't locked in combat but they'll get to attack the vehicle again in your opponent's assault phase.

solkan wrote:The only downside on screamers is that you have to expect to lose a few each round even when you do take out the vehicle. But while they last, it's all good.

The fun part being in 5th that if you immobilize the vehicle (or if it doesn't move away), the screamers aren't locked in combat but they'll get to attack the vehicle again in your opponent's assault phase.

How do they get to attack it again in the opponent's assault phase?

Dropping horrors or other shooting units down in their rear arc and shooting them a lot works well for all the standard transports. You'll need screamers or something similar to take on land raiders.

asugradinwa wrote:

solkan wrote:The only downside on screamers is that you have to expect to lose a few each round even when you do take out the vehicle. But while they last, it's all good.

The fun part being in 5th that if you immobilize the vehicle (or if it doesn't move away), the screamers aren't locked in combat but they'll get to attack the vehicle again in your opponent's assault phase.

How do they get to attack it again in the opponent's assault phase?

The rules changed. Page 63 of the BRB, "Successive Turns" under the Vehicles and Assaults section.

So, following on from this, how can Daemons deal with Monoliths? The only thing I can think of is to assault it with a Soul Grinder, 10+D6 should sort it out eventually... If it doesn't get shot to sh*t the moment it materialises that is. Any ideas?

Bloodthirsters with unholy might on the charge stand a slight chance of blowing it up. Other than that, soulgrinders charging (or tongue attacks), screamers possibly... that's really about it. Mostly go after the rest of the army.

Sok wrote:So, following on from this, how can Daemons deal with Monoliths? The only thing I can think of is to assault it with a Soul Grinder, 10+D6 should sort it out eventually... If it doesn't get shot to sh*t the moment it materialises that is. Any ideas?

Phase the necrons. In a test proxy game, a squad of bloodcrushers more or less single-handedly destroyed the Necron army. In a test game, dropped on turn 1 with bloodcrushers, 2 soul grinders, a squad of horrors and lord of change. Lord of change died from massed destroyer fire, one soul grinder lost its main weapon and was immobilized, and nearly everyone knocked down by shooting stood up. Warriors concentrated fire on the bloodcrushers...and accomplished next to nothing. Turn 2 enough extra stuff came in to blow away all the destroyers, and the bloodcrushers jumped into a massive multiple-unit assault. Necrons phased on 3.

necron are generally faster to just phase out in my experience. Considering how hard a bloodcrusher/fiend charge hits, our units can smash into a group of warriors so hard you can often wipe the whole squad, denying the chance to orb/monolith out of the combat the following turn. Often, a monolith and land raider are an expensive means to an end. Beyond that alternate purpose (porting or transporting), they're hard pressed to get good value from their shooting. Especially considering all our units still get saves against lascannons/particle whips.

I also agree with Solkan, I've found many times that my flamers will come up from reserve before the SMs termies have got out of the land raider, so I've had no choice but to flame the raider. What's really nice is combining a suicide flamer squad with a handful of screamers. stun or immobilize the raider, then get free hits with the screamers next turn. even if you lose both of those squads to the termies inside (unlikely, if they're combat or shooty), you still technically come out ahead points wise (a min flamer and min screamer squad is well under 200 points). Then the terminators are caught in the open, making them juicy power weapon bait.