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Hi,

I have a simple but yet tricky question about Fortune and the USR Turbo-bossters : can a Farseer fortune an unit and then go turbo-boosting in movement phase ?

Here us the text about the turbo-booster :

Rulebook v5 page 76 wrote:Controlling their bike at such speed such speeds take all thei Concentration and skill, however, so they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or excecute any other voluntary action in the same turn.

Now, we all agree that Fortune is cast before the movement phase but is that enough to allow for to turbo-boosting later on in following movement phase ?

For the record, this is the text of the Rulebook v4 which did not rise the question due to its slightly different wording :

Rulebook v4 page 76 wrote:Controlling their bike at such speed such speeds take all thei Concentration and skill, however, so they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or move in the Assault phase in the same turn.

Best regards,
Wilme

no he can't ... " so they cannot ... excecute any other voluntary action in the same turn " if he's cast a psychic power he can't turbo boost ... but warlock psychic powers that are always on ,embolden, enhance, cover (can't think what its called) still work.

I agree with Tri, the turbo boost rules prohibit any other voluntary action, when they occur isn't relevant.

Uh ohhh. Lots of Eldar players need to start looking at that carefully. I know of a few (myself included) that may have mounted Seer Coucils where this would have a pretty huge impact.

I agree the new rule prohibits it. However, just as an aside, I think this was an oversight on GW's part; I doubt they meant to write what they actually did write.

Denying a farseer his start of turn powers is pretty unprecedented. For instance, a pinned farseer and a farseer in combat can still cast their start of turn powers. And given 5th edition's new allowance they may be used from inside a transport, one might conclude GW's intention was to make them available all the time. My guess is they didn't fully appreciate what they were writing.

@ deadlygopher
not really ...
if you go to ground you can do nothing till the end of your following turn so you still loses at least one phase of psyhic powers (not this turns but next turns)

and all psykers can now still cast in CC ... why becasue many powers are best used in CC (edit)> or only used in CC <(edit)

any way reason that you turbo boosted was to get closer to the enemy, to attack next turn not to get a 3+ cover save (its just there so that people can survive the heavy shooting that they get that turn)

I have no idea what you're getting at past your third line.

Regardless, there isn't much debate about turbo-boosting and using start of turn powers.

For instance, a pinned farseer... can still cast their start of turn powers.

As Tri noted going to ground prevents any action and some people seem to overlook that pinning is actually just gone to ground without the cover bonus for the unit that caused the pinning (the rulebook literally explains it this way).

As such eldar psykers cannot use their powers while pinned.

FYI I think it can go both ways, and needs a FAQ ruling.

However this is how you get around it.

Fortune Council 1.
Speed Council 1 18-24".
Fortune Council 2.
Move Council 2 12".
Attach both Farseers to Council 2.
Move Council 2 6" in assault phase.

See?

It's a pretty significant go around to be able to cast Fortune and still turbo boost. At a minimum, you now have to select the 2nd Farseer, or go for broke and spend the 800+ points for 2 Farseers and 2 full Councils. For folks who don't want to go that route, this is a huge change in the wording from 4th to 5th edition.

Stelek wrote:FYI I think it can go both ways, and needs a FAQ ruling.

However this is how you get around it.

Fortune Council 1.
Speed Council 1 18-24".
Fortune Council 2.
Move Council 2 12".
Attach both Farseers to Council 2.
Move Council 2 6" in assault phase.

See?

Yup,

But the 2nd council won't be in turbo-boost (so he won't get his 3+ cover save...).

Among the questions risen by this change of wording, we found these :
- We were also wondering whether necrons destroyers could turbo-boost after using the WBB rule since it is a voluntary action (e.g. they "may" do it, they don't HAVE to...) ?
- Can a commandant space marine use his rite of battle rule after a turbo-boost (since he can give his ld, he doesn't HAVE to) ?
- Since the eldars spells are cast BEFORE the movement phase, we were also wondering if they would not be cast "before" the turn (as defined in the rulebook by 1) movement phase / 2) Shooting phase / 3) Assault phase, etc...)

Wilme

Wilme wrote:Among the questions risen by this change of wording, we found these :
- We were also wondering whether necrons destroyers could turbo-boost after using the WBB rule since it is a voluntary action (e.g. they "may" do it, they don't HAVE to...) ?
- Can a commandant space marine use his rite of battle rule after a turbo-boost (since he can give his ld, he doesn't HAVE to) ?
- Since the eldars spells are cast BEFORE the movement phase, we were also wondering if they would not be cast "before" the turn (as defined in the rulebook by 1) movement phase / 2) Shooting phase / 3) Assault phase, etc...)

Interesting. Well I now know I just screwed up the turbo boosting for my seer council in a tournament this weekend (no one called me on it, but I guess they were just as in the dark about it as I was). Sorry guys.

I think the necro use of "we'll be back" would prevent turbo boosting.

I'm also inclined to think that rites of battle would be a constant and not so much a voluntary thing. Besides, I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) it says something along the lines of "any space marine unit may use his leadership" rather than "he may give his leadership to any space marine unit". Thus, if the commander turbo boosts other units could still use his leadership...although other bike units that turbo boost might not be able to use it (since using it would be a voluntary action?).

As for the eldar power, they are used at the beginning of the turn, before the movement phase, so its still in the same turn and thus would prevent him from turbo boosting afterwards.

Fyi the second council can if needed get a 3+ cover save.

They don't usually need to, since the council in front will usually get more attention...but it is an option.

I wouldn't class WBB as a volentery action. What's the proof for that?

i was just in a discussion about this with someone and couldnt find where it was stated, is there a rulebook or codex pg you can reference so i can show him.

Wilme wrote:

Stelek wrote:FYI I think it can go both ways, and needs a FAQ ruling.

- Since the eldars spells are cast BEFORE the movement phase, we were also wondering if they would not be cast "before" the turn (as defined in the rulebook by 1) movement phase / 2) Shooting phase / 3) Assault phase, etc...)

Wilme

The Eldar codex actually says the powers are cast at the start of the Eldar player's turn.

Sarigar wrote:The Eldar codex actually says the powers are cast at the start of the Eldar player's turn.

And it's a voluntary action. It isn't BEFORE the turn, as many of you seem to think, it is at the start of. Therefore, you can't TB and Fortune.

Last I checked, WBB is after the turn is complete, before the next turn.

InquisitorFabius wrote:Last I checked, WBB is after the turn is complete, before the next turn.

And you need to check again. WBB rolls are made at the start of the Necron player's turn (page 13 of the Necron codex).

WBB rolls are an inherent part of the Necron lore. Granted, self-repairing is an ABILITY but it's not one that supplants other abilities nor denies the use of others. Nothing in the codex suggests this.

WBB isn't voluntary, as you cannot elect to use it. It happens regardless of player choice. (Though I don't know that I'd ever elect not to use it....)

as much as i'd like WBB to stop people TB, it isn't voluntary so can't stop it ... that said, if you WBB after coming through a monolith (for the reroll), then you can't; as using the portal is your choice.

(edit for ,.; )

I don't think modifying a characteristic is a "voluntary action" most of the time. Even if a character uses another's stats, I think. "Using" a character's leadership for example, doesn't mean the model is taking an action, rather the rule is substituting one rating for another. (Using as an action would seem to require an indirect object in the sentence IE Using x on y.) Similarly, WBB is a triggered condition, not an action. you can't just WBB instead of shooting, for example. Utilizing a psychic ability, however does seem to be a voluntary action as much as shooting as it involves selecting an ability to use, targets, measuring range, etc.

A voluntary action is anything you elect to do (rather than something you are forced to). So if the ability says that you "may" do something, you are chosing to do it and thus it is voluntary.

I disagree in the context of the rules. That is a choice, not an action. Consider a re-roll. You may re-roll a dice. That is not an action in the context of the game (think Leadership). If you were prevented from taken voluntary actions, would the model then lose its LD reroll? I think not.