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So let me get some opinions on this, I took the dreadlance/red fury combo for my vamp lord and was wondering about how well it meshes. Do my extra attacks from red Fury automatically hit, or are they resolved on my WS? I'm sure this has already been addressed but it came up in a game and I didn't know how to take it. Tanks for the help people.

I guess I'd say that you auto-hit. There's nothing that says you can only fight with a lance on the charge (or, if there is, I haven't been able to locate it) so I'd assume that you keep poking people with the lance. Page 120 of the BRB actually says that "a character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal" so that pretty strongly says to me that you're always using the Dreadlance, and if you're using the Dreadlance, then it auto-hits.

going by what missy said i agree, weapons cannot be swapped during a single turn, so i assume that all attacks are resolved as being caused by the lance.

i know in the brettonia book they reference lances (of all kinds) only being used on the turn you charge. they even go so far as to say that if a char is equiped with a magic sword and a mundane lance, he will use the lance the turn he charges and the sword in all rounds after. Not sure that would apply to a different rulebook, but it you are looking for paradigms there's one.

Can you please direct me to the page where you see that lances are only used on the turn you charge? I'm flipping through my Brets book and don't see it, although admittedly I haven't read through the entire thing in a while.

Also, I'm not sure the magical sword v. mundane lance is a fair comparison as pointed out from before "a character that has a magic close combat weapon cannot use any other close combat weapons, although it can carry a shield as normal" -- it's pretty safe to assume that the magical sword takes precedence. With the Dreadlance, we're now comparing a magical weapon (the lance) to a mundane hand weapon.

The attacks are made with the weapon you are using, if you charged you still get the +2 to str. It's a really good combo and I know a player who uses it but I also know that some people consider it overkill. When it was used it was in a unit of black knights and when he charged he would seriously do like 13 wounds to a unit of ogres, I just baited and avoided the unit for the rest of the game.

The Brettonians do indeed have a special rule that allows them to switch from the lance in subsequent combat rounds. Other armies may not do this as Selestine notes. Thus, the Vampire continues using the Dread Lance. (What is less clear is whether a character who loses his mount may continue to use a lance.) Thus, he continues to auto hit with any additional attacks. (But note that these do not generate additional attacks.)

I am unsure how a Vampire with lance could do 13 wounds. A Vampire Lord gets 4 attacks. With Red Fury, he could generate up to 4 more, for a total of 8 (though, on average, 1 of those will still fail to wound). Maybe mounted on a zombie dragon, as the dragon gets 5 attacks?

8 attacks is certainly not overkill against T5+ targets, targets with a 2+ save, units with +5 CR, unbreakable units, etc. Keep in mind you also have to wound, and all saves fail, to generate the additional attacks.

I am unsure how a Vampire with lance could do 13 wounds. A Vampire Lord gets 4 attacks. With Red Fury, he could generate up to 4 more, for a total of 8 (though, on average, 1 of those will still fail to wound). Maybe mounted on a zombie dragon, as the dragon gets 5 attacks?

thats what i loved about the old HOC book, sword of hellfire, wounds become D3 instead. with 7 attacks thats 7 - 21 wounds, and count as flaming, so each of those become D6 against a treeman lol, all in all you can do over 100 wounds on a treeman, and given a dragon it gets better lol

Edit: missing words 0_o

jmurph wrote:I am unsure how a Vampire with lance could do 13 wounds. A Vampire Lord gets 4 attacks. With Red Fury, he could generate up to 4 more, for a total of 8 (though, on average, 1 of those will still fail to wound). Maybe mounted on a zombie dragon, as the dragon gets 5 attacks?

I may be incorrect, but I believe he was saying that the vampire with dreadlance / red fury AND the unit of black knights that he is with do 13 wounds (total combined) on the charge to a unit of ogres.

When it was used it was in a unit of black knights and when he charged he would seriously do like 13 wounds to a unit of ogres,

thats how


Edit: messed up tags and kiled my smiley :K

Still, 7 wounds from the vamp and 6 from 4-5 BKs is still pretty unusual. I mean, they will wreck stuff, but that is still a very good round of combat!

Yeah, the Hellfire was awesome. Hopefully new HoC get a nice flaming weapon.

@ selest: It is in the blurb at the beginning of the magic items section.

I feel conflicted about this, it seems very strange to think of a lance being used as a hand weapon in subesequent rounds. I assume that someone has checked the big book under lances?

kiwi, does it say in the item descrip. that it cannot be used unless charging?

magic weapons do not follow thier origional counterparts.
a magic great weapon will not strike last unless it says so and so on.
just another one of those things GW rushed and didnt bother to go into any detail.

Edit:

Yeah, the Hellfire was awesome. Hopefully new HoC get a nice flaming weapon.

used to have a lord with one on a dragon, send my army up 1 flank and him + 2 units of knights up the other.
breath wep. the dryads then charge treemen / treekin and watch your opponents face go blank

It states that it is a lance in the item description.

Lances are mounted only.
Lances only grant +2 STR when charging.
A model that uses a weapon in combat continues to use that weapon unless a special rule states otherwise (IE Brettonians).

That about sum it up?

wasserrj wrote:So let me get some opinions on this, I took the dreadlance/red fury combo for my vamp lord and was wondering about how well it meshes. Do my extra attacks from red Fury automatically hit, or are they resolved on my WS? I'm sure this has already been addressed but it came up in a game and I didn't know how to take it. Tanks for the help people.

It is a strong combo: your extra attacks will indeed automatically hit (so long as you are mounted, you have no choice but to use the dreadlance as per the general rules on magic weapons).

A few things to note, however;

-When mounting a lord on a dragon, consider use of the Bloodline power Infinite Hatred: it's substantially cheaper, allows for more successful attacks from the Dragon (who now always rerolls) with minimal loss of attacks from the lord and frees up more magic item budget.

-As per the FAQ, when given an extra attack (see the Staff of Damnation) these attacks benefit from the Red Fury ability too. Thus, the maximum number of wounds a Lord can inflict without being joined to a unit are; 5 (Z Dragon) + 4 (lord) + 4 (Red fury on normal attacks) + 1 (Z Dragon Staff of Damnation) + 1 (Lord SoD) + 1 (Lord SoD Red Fury) = 16.

On the Bretonian thing:

It says a mundane lance + Magic weapon, use the lance while charging, magic weapon otherwise. With a Magic lance, you always use the magic lance.

The rerolls on the Dragon only apply to the first round of combat, as he is getting his re-rolls from the Hatred special rule. Otherwise, eveything sounds right to me.

Andrew Luke wrote:The rerolls on the Dragon only apply to the first round of combat, as he is getting his re-rolls from the Hatred special rule. Otherwise, eveything sounds right to me.

It depends on how Infinite Hatred is written. The mount actually gets his hatred from the rider, thus if the rider has hatred every turn, so does the mount. But I don't have a vampire book, and thus don't know how it's written.

Don't have the book in front of me, but I'm 95% sure that it's written as "The vampire blah blah blah". I wouldn't play it as the mount having it unless the book stated that specifically either, it just seems cheesey and wrong that way.

It was always to my understanding that Lances were only used on the first round of combat on the charge. I will dig out my books tonight.

wasserrj wrote:Don't have the book in front of me, but I'm 95% sure that it's written as "The vampire blah blah blah". I wouldn't play it as the mount having it unless the book stated that specifically either, it just seems cheesey and wrong that way.

The BRB says all mounts are affected by the rider's psychology, and vice versa... riding a stupid mount makes the rider stupid, a hatred'ing rider makes the mount hate.