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Greetings programs...

Been lurking for a few weeks - love this place!
I put the basic questions of playing Lizardmen up front, and the background/fluff at the end - cause I know I don't always read long posts, and search for the meat of them...

***THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT***

(For context - I've been playing WHFB for about 3 weeks - but have alot of 40k experience.)

So overall, my impressions of the Lizardmen (from a new player perspective) are...
No ranged - aside from skinks - coupled with a low movement, make things very rough.
When fighting against undead, the Cold Blooded trait tends to not make much difference - if they get beaten, they flee from the fear - no test - and ultimately, cut down in the pursuit phase.

I'm definitely new to WHFB - and the Lizardmen are still very interesting. I know I'm not going to ONLY play against Vampire Counts - but the majority of my games will be against them. That, and the room mate has been playing for 14 years - although not VC the entire time.

I've taken a peek at the Dark Elves, and they seem VERY flexible, and quite interesting and fun... Chaos looks great - but they have a distinct lack of Ballistics as well, but their flexibility and magic are decent.
Skaven seem interesting, but I don't know if they're really my style... that and the sub-average Leadership may be prone to folding the flanks.
I've also thrown an eye to Tomb Kings - and they look REAL interesting, and fun... against a Vampire Counts army, I can imagine a very interesting battle...

So, I'm not sure if I want to keep playing Lizardmen, and invest in an army... I'd love to try out Dark Elves, and perhaps Tomb Kings; but the Dark Elves have definitely caught my eye - they just seem more tactically and strategically flexible. They also seem to have a good mix of Melee, Ranged, and Magic... and they have alot of Core choices, instead of the base 3 (4 with Teample Gaurd) choices for Lizardmen.


FLUFF AND DETAILS....

Been reading these forums for a few weeks now, and they've been most informative, and entertaining.

About a month ago, I moved in with a friend, and started playing 40k again. Nothing major there - I've been playing that for about 10 years now.... WH Fantasy, however, now that's something else.

So, he gave me the basic overview, and we played a tiny 500 point game to get me used to the slight variations of WHFB vs 40k. Over the next few weeks, we gradually increased the points... now, we generally play 2000 point games, and I've got a solid understanding of the rules, and am now working on army/tactic development.

After reading through some of the army books, I decided upon Lizardmen. They look real nice, and have an interesting back story. Normally I play Marines or Tau in 40k, so I wanted to veer away form the norm in WHFB... I didn't want to play Humans/good guys, and wanted something either savage, or evil... plus, they look like they're fun to paint

My room mate plays Vampire Counts... so far, I'm 0 and 8 against these guys. The best I did was in a 2000 point game against the Ogre Kingdoms - my Skinks won the day - poisoned blowguns all the way

So, I've tried almost everything against VC - and I come up short every time. The magic phase is dominated constantly by the VC (rightfully so I figure), and the fact that every unit inspires fear or such has lead to countless units automatically fleeing combat and being summarily executed during pursuit. My last game, I put a Slaan on the field - to get an understanding of how they worked. He was a second gen, with 16 temple gaurd.
I have him two plaques, and a diadem of power. I took Lore of shadows, which worked surprisingly well.

Ultimately tho, this game went like all the others... almost all units were forced to flee as a result of being beaten in HtH by undead. The big killers were the ethereal/ghost models... the ones generated by Winds of Undeath (cast in two successive magic phases - both times with boxcars - irresistible force :( = bad luck), and then there were some purchased as troops.... nothing in my army could hit them - except for the Slaan, and skink priest. No magic weapons = no chance of beating them... they ate my cavalry and skinks in 3 turns.

These things destroyed my army, and by the end of the game, there were 3 units of them. No terrain penalties, high movement, fear, need magic weapons to hit them. My toad couldn't hurt them - he had loaded up on dispel scrolls, and had a dispel pool of about 9 to 14 dice.
That, and I still had to contend with WS 7 skeletons and zombies... which hemmed up my foot troops. Ultimately, the battle ended when the Toad and his Temple Gaurd were charged by 2 units of the ghosts, 24 WS7 Skeletons, and a unit of Ghouls - with characters in the mix... Lost one combat, and automatically fled... destroyed in the pursuit phase.

What a mess - my first attempt at using a Slaan, and it is one of my worst defeats.
Over the course of my intro to Lizardmen and WHFB I've covered almost the whole of the Lizardman book. I've tried Kroxigor - but the unit of 4 fled after losing a combat to the fear inducing undead (or they failed their Leadership test) - huge waste of points - again, summarily executed in the pursuit.
Salamanders get charged by ghosts/ethereal or WS7 Skellies - and they end up shooting at the Zombies placed 3 inches in front of them during the magic pahse - so they don't damage anything, really...

It seems that the only thing that ever does well are the Skinks... they consistently get a few kills (for some reason, undead are not immune to poison attacks), and if they flee - no big loss. Although vs the Vampire Counts, they aren't so good. They can't really charge to flank someone, because they have to make the Fear/Terror test - and that never succeeds for some reason.

I've had equally poor performance against Empire.
The huge amount of ballistics that were fielded really hemmed up my troops before they got into close combat... Artillery, handgunners, riflemen - all big problems. Of course, I didn't have a Slaan on the field during that game.

Thanks for sticking through the long-winded post... Any suggestions, comments, or anything?
I know I can't expect to win every time as a new player... but it gets frustrating, just not being able to really do anything but kill expendable/regenerating zombies and skeletons.
I'd like to at least make some progress in my games - not just find new ways to get defeated...although, even in defeat, there is something to be learned.

Side note - Pit of Shades tends to work quite well against Undead...but the models sucked in just get replaced in the next VC Magic phase generally.

Well, after a few more games with the Scalies, I learned some more, and had some thoughts...

The Salamanders worked well, they're a great unit. The skinks - as always - are fantastic...
I read through some of the other army books and finally settled on Dark Elves.

The Dark Elves have a fantastic selection of core troops - which is definately a must for my play style. I felt too reigned in by the lizardmen, with only a handful of core troops to choose from.

I like the Lizardmen - they appeal to me, and I have some experience with them now... but primarily, I'm going to play dark elves, and probably bounce between the two armies.



Thanks for the responses and tips! Good stuff!