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So I just joined one of the gaming clubs on campus. Great. But the problem is, I'm totally new to 40k. I've only played one tourney, a Combat Patrol run on 4th edition rules. Now that 5th Edition is out, I don't know what's gained/lost effectiveness. I've also been told that the eldar codex I'm using is good for fifth edition, even though I bought it before 5th edition even came out...

regardless, I'm sure y'all wanna see the list:

HQ: Farseer..........130
Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

Elites:
Howling Banshees x10.........187
Exarch, executioner, acrobatic, war shout
Wave Serpent (transport for Banshees)........145
TL EML, Vectored Engines

Harlequin Troupe x6...........148
Troupe Master w/ PW, Harlequin's Kiss x5

Troops:
Guardian Defenders x10.........95
Scatter Laser Platform

Guardian Defenders x10........105
Starcannon

Heavy Support:
Falcon.................................185
Scatter Laser, Vectored Engines, Holo-Fields

TOTAL: 1000 points on the nose.

The plan is to put the farseer and banshees in the Wave Serpent, and the Harlies in the Falcon. Both will charge toward the enemy, dump their troops, and then just act as AT fire suppport. The banshees and harlies are meant to deal with MEQs, while the guardians hang back and claim objectives. The Farseer is meant to stick with the Banshees and use Doom/Fortune every turn.

Like I've said before, I'm totally new to this, so any comments would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to reconstruct the list, I just ask that you keep it assaulty/anti-marine.

Cheers!

This is a good 1000pts list but i think you need another troops on the table as 2 guardian squads disappear fast

okay, here's the updated list. I pulled things where I could to give myself a third troops choice.

HQ: Farseer..........130
Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

Elites:
Howling Banshees x8.........155
Exarch w/ Executioner
Wave Serpent (transport for Banshees)........145
TL EML, Vectored Engines

Harlequin Troupe x6...........140
Troupe Master w/ PW, Harlequin's Kiss x3

Troops:
Guardian Defenders x10.........95
Scatter Laser Platform

Guardian Defenders x10........105
Starcannon

Dire Avengers x5...................60

Heavy Support:
Falcon.................................175
Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines, Holo-Fields

TOTAL: still 1000 points on the nose.

My only suggestions on the revised list would be to take the star cannon out of the defender squad and use the points to upgrade the gun on the flacon. A missile launcher would be ideal, but even a scatter laser would be an improvement over the shuriken cannon. This is of course assuming that you are going to be doing some shooting with the falcon. If you are just planning on useing it as a delivery truck for the quins, then keep it cheap.

The other thing is that you may want to skip the vectored engines. You only crash and die if you moved 13-24 inches in the last turn. So if you were going 0-12, and get immobalized, you just land safely. With that in mind (and a holofiled on your falcon) you probably want to ditch the vectored engines and pick up spirit stones. With the wave serpent its kind of your call since it is likely to be speeding around a lot.

All things considered, you don't need those Harlies. Or even that Wave Serpent. If you keep the WS, it would only be to get some more guns on the table. If you want the Harlies, give them a Shadowseer, otherwise they're worthless. They've got the resilience of wet cardboard and pack about as much punch as my deceased grandmother.

You could use a buff-up on that DA squad. 5 won't last much longer than 10 Guardians.

because of the new rules eldar skimmers arent very good any more, I wouldnt waste points on them. Arent vectored engines useless now? If I remember correctly as long as a skimmer dosent move more than 6" and it gets immobolised it comes to rest and is not destroyed. Just remember you can go fast and get a save (firing no weapons) or you can stand still and shoot with skimmers which means they pretty much are toast next turn.

romulus571 wrote:So I just joined one of the gaming clubs on campus. Great. But the problem is, I'm totally new to 40k. I've only played one tourney, a Combat Patrol run on 4th edition rules. Now that 5th Edition is out, I don't know what's gained/lost effectiveness. I've also been told that the eldar codex I'm using is good for fifth edition, even though I bought it before 5th edition even came out...

regardless, I'm sure y'all wanna see the list:

HQ: Farseer..........130
Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

Elites:
Howling Banshees x10.........187
Exarch, executioner, acrobatic, war shout
Wave Serpent (transport for Banshees)........145
TL EML, Vectored Engines

Harlequin Troupe x6...........148
Troupe Master w/ PW, Harlequin's Kiss x5

Troops:
Guardian Defenders x10.........95
Scatter Laser Platform

Guardian Defenders x10........105
Starcannon

Heavy Support:
Falcon.................................185
Scatter Laser, Vectored Engines, Holo-Fields

TOTAL: 1000 points on the nose.

The plan is to put the farseer and banshees in the Wave Serpent, and the Harlies in the Falcon. Both will charge toward the enemy, dump their troops, and then just act as AT fire suppport. The banshees and harlies are meant to deal with MEQs, while the guardians hang back and claim objectives. The Farseer is meant to stick with the Banshees and use Doom/Fortune every turn.

Like I've said before, I'm totally new to this, so any comments would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to reconstruct the list, I just ask that you keep it assaulty/anti-marine.

Cheers!

I like the list it is pretty good, I run a Doom/Fortune Seer Wave with Banshees quite often, and it's fun!

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Guardian Squads really really need a Warlock with Conceal. Too many things have AP5 or better and this lets them always have a 5+ (cover) save. It will keep them alive a great deal longer.

2) If you need to trim points, I'd say drop Warshout and Acrobatics for the Banshee Exarch, while they help I think it's bad to spend the points on wargear/skills in this low point games (more figures/models are better).

3) Guardians don't hit well (BS3) so I'd say go with a Scatter Laser on both squads... unless you are hurting for Anti-Armor.

4) What is your tank buster? If you face off against a AV14 Landraider, how do you crack it? One solution is upgrading the wave serpent with a bright lance but personally I believe you need at least 2 ways (in case the wave dies). I'd swap the Harley's for Fire Dragons. If you take FD, you can cut costs and just take 6 normal (No Exarch) as he does not add that much). So it does not matter what the combination is, but have at least two of the following: Bright Lance on Wave, Bright Lance w/ Guardian, Fire Dragons w/transport.

5) Falcon, remove the vectored engines, your falcon most of the time will be moving a max of 12" or less (so it can still fire 1 weapon, or drop off troops). Vector only come into play if you get an immobilized result when moving faster than 12". The Falcon should have Spirit Stones, so that when it gets shot it can still move.

I've heard of others taking EML on a Falcon and with it's poor BS, I wonder if taking a single shot is worth it. I guess it makes it a better anti-armor killer as it can fire the EML and Pulse Laser but really those are not good for hitting heavy armor (like AV14).

6) You might want to take Vectored Engines on the Wave, as it will often be moving faster than 12". For one, moving faster than 12" will give it a 4+ cover save (and if you fortune the wave, it'll be able to re-roll). This should help it get in close and drop off and deliver the Shees. But, if it does get an immobilized result it'll keep it from getting destroyed. Is it worth the 20 points? Debatable, it's sort of just like buying insurance... For such a small point game, I think I personally would lean on chancing it (and not take it).

Guardian Vs DA. DA has more range and might be better anti troop but does not have access to any heavy weapons. But DA can have the Exarch take a power sword, making it better in CC if it comes to it (no grenades, should try to avoid CC if you can). If you do take a DA squad you want a big squad of 9 w/exarch.

-Jara

sheridan wrote: because of the new rules eldar skimmers arent very good any more, I wouldnt waste points on them. Arent vectored engines useless now? If I remember correctly as long as a skimmer dosent move more than 6" and it gets immobolised it comes to rest and is not destroyed. Just remember you can go fast and get a save (firing no weapons) or you can stand still and shoot with skimmers which means they pretty much are toast next turn.

I disagree. Eldar Skimmers are not nearly as tough as they used to be (and while harder to use) but they are still good. They're good just harder to use.

Vectored Engines only help if it's going faster than 12" and for 20 points I'm not sure it's worth it, I usually skip it on a Falcons (IMO, it is sometimes worth getting on a Wave).

Here is my Eldar vehicle cheat sheet:

5th Ed Vehicle Cheat Sheet:

Fast Skimmer (Eldar):

Stationary
-All Weapons
-Melee Auto Hit

6" = Combat Move
-All Weapons!
-Melee need 4+ to hit

6.1"+ - 12" = Cruising Speed
-1 Weapon + Defensive
-Can Embark/Disembark!
-Melee need 6+ to hit

12.1" or More = Flat Out
-4+ Cover Save
-No Embark/Disembark
-No Weapons
-Immobilized = Destroyed (wrecked)

*Star Engines = 12" movement in shooting phase.

romulus571 wrote:
HQ: Farseer..........130
Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

This is ok, i hope hes going with the banshees because anywhere else is a waste of his/her talents

romulus571 wrote:
Elites:
Howling Banshees x8.........155
Exarch w/ Executioner
Wave Serpent (transport for Banshees)........145
TL EML, Vectored Engines

I like these, no complains

romulus571 wrote:
Harlequin Troupe x6...........140
Troupe Master w/ PW, Harlequin's Kiss x3

1: with no seer or transport, these little monsters are going to die real fast thanks to shooting and bad saves
2:why only 3 kisses?
3: i would take them out of your list, you can put the points to good use

romulus571 wrote:
Guardian Defenders x10.........95
Scatter Laser Platform

Nice, keep them there

romulus571 wrote:
Guardian Defenders x10........105
Starcannon

I have found out by trial and error that starcannons are no good, unless there are alot of them
better to go scatter or EML

romulus571 wrote:
Dire Avengers x5...................60

I see that you wanted another squad but only 5 with no real use or benifit, im sorry scrap them and try something else

romulus571 wrote:
Heavy Support:
Falcon.................................175
Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines, Holo-Fields

I love falcons but being only one of two tanks in your army is going to make it a very big target and also a shuriken cannon is useless and a waste on this lovely kiling machine

thanks for the feedback everyone! I think with some work we could really run the risk of coming up with a competitive list. I tried taking as many suggestions as I could, and this is what I came out with:

HQ:
Farseer..........130
Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

Elites:
Howling Banshees x8........150
Exarch with Executioner
Wave Serpent Transport.........130
TL BLs

Fire Dragons x6..........96

Wave Serpent Transport.........130
TL BLs

Troops:

Guardian Squad 1 x10..........135
scatter laser, warlock w/ conceal

Guardian Squad 2 x10..........135
scatter laser, warlock w/ conceal

Guardian Squad 3 x10..........95
scatter laser

total: 1001 points

I would have given the last guardian squad a warlock but I ran out of points. Is it okay to be one point over? And do I have too much Anti-Tank now?

One point over is fine in casual games, but not in tournaments. If you need to shuffle points around, you can drop the bright lances from the dragons' serpent and then use some of the points you save there to buy spirit stone for the wave serpents, or runes for the farseer or whatever else you can work out so that you come in within 1000 points. That or you could drop the dragon squad down to 5 man...your choice.

Also, as a point of note, I'm not so fond of conceal in guardian squads (or at least not in all of them). The reason being that guardians are generally back field units and as such are normally in cover and thus don't need conceal to give them artifical (and sub standard) cover. So if you plan on having your guardians in the back field, sitting in cover most of the game, then conceal is not needed. If, on the other hand, you plan on moving them forward, then conceal is good as it makes you less dependent on jumping from cover to cover in order to live.

If you end up replacing conceal on one of your guardian squads, I would replace it with embolden to make sure the guardians stick around longer.

romulus571 wrote:

total: 1001 points

I would have given the last guardian squad a warlock but I ran out of points. Is it okay to be one point over? And do I have too much Anti-Tank now?

In my play group it is not. It's a slippery slop... sucks I know but playing for 1000 points is just that, 1000 (and not a point over). Often this will have you playing at slightly under 998 for example, and well that's okay.

You could easily drop the scatter laser in the 3rd Guardian squad down to a shukren cannon and then have 9 points left over. Granted that drops the range of that squad down to 24" and I hate to do it...

Edit, I like Phoenix's idea of dropping one of the BL on a wave down to something else... Starcannon maybe.

Phoenix wrote:One point over is fine in casual games, but not in tournaments. If you need to shuffle points around, you can drop the bright lances from the dragons' serpent and then use some of the points you save there to buy spirit stone for the wave serpents, or runes for the farseer or whatever else you can work out so that you come in within 1000 points. That or you could drop the dragon squad down to 5 man...your choice.

Also, as a point of note, I'm not so fond of conceal in guardian squads (or at least not in all of them). The reason being that guardians are generally back field units and as such are normally in cover and thus don't need conceal to give them artifical (and sub standard) cover. So if you plan on having your guardians in the back field, sitting in cover most of the game, then conceal is not needed. If, on the other hand, you plan on moving them forward, then conceal is good as it makes you less dependent on jumping from cover to cover in order to live.

If you end up replacing conceal on one of your guardian squads, I would replace it with embolden to make sure the guardians stick around longer.

Good points phoenix. I'd still recommend having at it on at least on one squads, as finding terrain that will accommodate ~33 troops can be tough. That and I personally like the versatility conceal offers as it means I can move them out to capture points or what not and not have to worry as much about terrain.

What are you running up against? Personnally I find guardians overmatched in 5th edition.

Limited vehicles makes for all your points in one basket, falcons are overpriced for what they provide. Unless you are planning to dink and dunk and then race to contest objectives on the last turn. For kill point games your guardians will hard to keep upright.

I like the farseer + banshee combo. Good and relatively cheap for 1000 pts.

If you can wing it...

Go with a close to max guardian squad with warlock/conceal. That can be a skirmish line protecting walking banshees, fire dragons, dire avengers... etc. Get a full squad of dire avengers ... bladestorm, defend, shield and power weapon. I have found them to to be
effective at cutting down approaching hoards and can even stand up in melee between defend dropping opponent attacks and the shield giving them a 5+ invulnerable in melee. Team them up with your banshees and you have a nasty little surprise.

As a relatively cheap replacement for the falcon, might I suggest either a D-cannon (undependable but good for blasting terminators and the like) or perhaps a 3-elf Dark Reaper with the exarch sporting either EML or the tempest with fast shot. With the EML it is direct fire hell for tanks/marines/necron killing. With the tempest, you can preserve the unit out of sight and just count on dropping 3
S4 AP3 templates with your BS 5 every turn. That should thin out any hoard that tries to approach.