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Hey guys. Just tossing around a slogging BT list, wondered if anyone here had some tips.

HQ

Emperor's Champion w/ Accept any Challenge - 140

Reclusiarch w/ Term Honors and 3 Cenobytes - 140
Reclusiarch w/ Term Honors and 3 Cenobytes - 140

Troops

Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x6 and Power Fist (all with BP/CCW) - 235
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x6 and Power Fist (all with BP/CCW) - 235

Fast Attack

Landspeeder Tornado x2 (Multi Melta + Heavy Flamer) - 150
Landspeeder Tornado (Multi Melta + Heavy Flamer) - 75
Landspeeder Tornado (Multi Melta + Heavy Flamer) - 75

Heavy Support

Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155
Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155

1500 on the nose.

The Chaplains go in with the Crusader squads (duh). The Speeders deepstrike and pop tanks, then go about flaming everything. Now, I'm probably going a little overboard on the AT, but I don't have much experience with Vindicators as tankbusters, so I'm not sure as to their reliability in that area. I tend to prefer redundant units (I also tend to roll terribly at the worst moments).

I've heard good things about Grimaldus, but it seems like he would be better suited to sitting in the middle of 4 or more squads rather than 2.

Do I have enough troops for this point level?

i drop 1 reclusiarch and maybe LST
give bolt pistol for another reclusarch (+1A for 1 pnt.)
give melta gun or flamer for crusaders sq.

add more men in 1.5k you ar very low on body's especial for foot slogging


my 2 cnt.

I think you have just enough vehicles for all your opponents "anti Vehicle stuff" and Just enough infantry for all your opponents anti infantry.

If you do not get first turn, my thoughts are you will lose one of your infantry squads turn one... and the other turn two. Vehicles because of armour 13 on the vindis might make it to turn 3.

You really gotta go one way or the other.

take one chappy and one marshal for LD 10 all around, two squads of 20 w/melta (go and take their objectives), and 4 squads of 10 w/plasmacannons (hold your objectives) if they are in cover, they can go to ground for the additional save then stand back up and run forward D6 when they pass their check(basically takeing zero negatives for the 3+cover)... fill in the rest with 3 small squads of termies w/tankhunting missiles (or whatever you want). It is very hard to beat at 1500pts. Add in grimaldus for even more fun.

Having only 20 scoring troops in a 1500 points list does not sit well with me. You supplement them nicely with the Vindicators and the four Tornadoes, but I think that without a larger core of infantry you are likely to be swept away by more numerous opponents.

With Black Templars, the standard approach for a player to take when constructing their list is to consider their Crusader Squads (just as Tactical Squads are to a generic Space Marine player) to be the mainstay of the list. "No duh," you probably think. Well, you'd be surprised how easy it is for a list to go from being primarily core units to tons of glitz and glamour in the form of support units and heavy hitters with nothing really to hold it all together at the base.

If you're taking Accept Any Challenge, the only benefit a Chaplain is going to give you is the extra 3" Righteous Zeal move. Granted, that is a major advantage, but when you increase the number of Initiates and Neophytes in an army from a modest 2 squads to a beefier 4, having the universal Ld10 coverage of a Marshal outweighs any advantage a single squad with a joined Reclusiarch has.

Hope that helps.

CK

Thanks a bunch guys, good points all around. I'll throw a list together and re-post it in a bit. See if I can make any improvements.

If your doing foot slogging you want many large units running across the board with a 'few' support units (1 tac unit with las/plas or landspeeder, 1 vindicator). Also like above try the marshal and 1 chaplain as the EC is so similar. IMO take several crusader squads of just enough Neophytes to soak up bullets but don't over due it as they will drag you down in cc.

Also a cheap little tactic that I found is taking a bare bone inquisitor and bring along a vindicare assassin who can shoot your own units (spare Neophytes) to make them advance faster each turn.

Except for the fact that a), you cannot shoot your own models intentionally, and b), Black Templars may not ally with any army that has a psyker in it with the exception of Grey Knight units. Inquisitors are not Grey Knights, and are therefore not allowed, making the whole Vindicare business a bunch of bunk.

CK

To Da Blak Gobbo :
You cannot shoot your own units.The units which picked as shooting targets must contain at least 1 enemy model.

To Corpsman:

In deed,it was "No model with psychic POWERS may be field as allies..."

So,an inquisitor with no psychic powers chosen for him is legal.

BTW,through my own experience...as a templar,you would have many chances...to see the difference between fearless and Ld10,in a shooting phase...

Tokugawa, you are indeed correct. It has been a while since I last read the "Abhor the Witch" rule -- I blame it on my memory.

That indeed opens up a nice window to include an Inquisitor Lord (with attendant Retinue) and an Eversor Assassin for a measly 150ish points.

Thanks for the correction.

CK

Alright, here's a couple lists I've been batting about...

HQ

Grimaldus - 195
Emperor's Champion w/ Accept any Challenge - 140

Troops

Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x10, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 285
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x10, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 285
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x10, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 285

Heavy Support

Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155
Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155

-OR-

HQ

Marshal w/ Lightening Claws, Terminator Honors, Iron Halo - 150
Emperor's Champion w/ Accept any Challenge - 140

Troops

Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x4, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 225
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x4, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 225
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x4, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 225
Initiates x10 w/ Neophytes x4, Power Fist, and Melta (all with BP/CCW) - 225

Heavy Support

Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155
Vindicator w/ Machine Spirit - 155

Both are 1500 exactly and both are pretty straightforward. Suggestions?

The second seems better.In the first list,it is no doubt that your opponent would focus his fire on the Ld8 squad,and it would run quickly when suffered casualty...

Oh, I should have specified...Grimaldus has a 6" Unmatched Zeal bubble. I can stick him in the middle of the crusader squads as they run up field and grant them all Fearless and Directed +3" Zeal moves.

Take the first list.

The fact that Grimaldus does that makes the first list leagues better than the second.

CK

I believe that the original list (first post) was a gem. My friend runs a 2x Vindi list (at 1750), and it's brutal there too. My only thought would be to combine the 2x 1 Land Speeder into 1x 2 Land Speeders.