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'Facts from new SM codex'

Danny Internets wrote:

With regards to White Scars, won't that mean that you can have basically an entire army of dirt cheap bikes that can all outflank and are all scoring? That seems insanely broken.

This was countered by Alpharius:

Good luck fielding (and affording!) and winning all the time with that army!

Still, certainly seems like one for the "OMG!!11!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!111!!!" crowd!

Now, I was thinking.....

...Looking at the points for bikes (25pts ish)
+
Ability with HQ to be taken as troops. With Special HQ to Outflank
+
Squad Sizes varying from 3-8 members
+
Can take multiple specials of the same type
+
Cheap(ish) attack bike attachment




Have you now got a decent biker list? Backed up by a few other units?
Or are the same problems with bikes* still in effect and the real power (if any) is in the abuse of the Outflank rule?




*Which were points cost, and ineffective in both shooting and combat (correct?)

I think the problem that SM bikes have compared to Eldar councils and the Nob Biker 1500 point army is that its still just a marine. They arent super hard to kill and arent super hard in combat.

Also you have to take something else to reliably kill tanks. The two I mentioned kill tanks really easily in combat.

Bikes are 25 pts now?

apparently yes, 25 pt aint bad
but as said, it wont compare to other pure biker armies, nobz have alot of survivablility (sp?) and all canhave power klaws ect.
they will have alot of probs killing tanks, even with melta's.

I'm not 100% sure how this works, so I may be off base:

Taking Khan and Shrike.

Shrike's ability gives all units fleet
Khan's Outflank ability is lost.

But, Khan already has fleet and now the unit he'd join would have fleet b/c of Shrike.

Fleeting bike units that, if 5 strong, are also troop choices?

Correct. That is possible.
You are paying just shy of 400pts for those characters though....

a bike squad that can fly into combat on the 1s turn, i like
poor tau, wont know what hit em ;(

If you take Shrike bikes will still not be able to fleet. Bikes can't run. People are thinking of how fleet was worded in 4th, not how it is worded in 5th.

Regarding the list, it seems pretty nasty. It doesn't matter so much that you aren't especially great in combat because you have the special weapons to make up for it.

I'm not going to comment too much more because I'm angry that the Space Marine codex has seemingly made my Ravenwing army useless.

OK, its possible......... if you disregard the core rules :-)

You are able to get a squadron of 8 bikes with weapons for the same price as 10 Tacticals with weapons in a drop pod.

I think that is a good deal, considering their movement and ability to take 2 specials.

You make up for being weak in combat by bringing some assault affiliated units along.

Oh, and Natedog710, my condolences on your loss

natedogg710 wrote:I'm not going to comment too much more because I'm angry that the Space Marine codex has seemingly made my Ravenwing army useless.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the new marine codex was not replacing the BT, DA and BA codexes.

You are wrong!

The new Space Marine codex is only replacing the old Space Marine codex.

The DA, BA, BT and yes, even the SW Codices still stand.

However odd, confusing and annoying it may be...

Can't wait for the FAQ/Patches for those particular books!

natedogg710 wrote:I'm not going to comment too much more because I'm angry that the Space Marine codex has seemingly made my Ravenwing army useless.

I'm curious, in what way is it useless?

Rosicrucian wrote:

natedogg710 wrote:I'm not going to comment too much more because I'm angry that the Space Marine codex has seemingly made my Ravenwing army useless.

I'm curious, in what way is it useless?

Not useless, just inferior to an all-bike Space Marine army in nearly every way.

[rant]
Why use the DA codex when I can get bikes for 10-15 points cheaper, Land Speeders for 10-15 points cheaper, a Land Speeder that can transport scouts (who are also troops), Heavy 2 Typhoons, and Attack Bike Squadrons? ATSKNF is not as good as fearless at times, but I can take more bikes to help absorb casualties if need be. And I can still combat squad if I take a full size squad with an Attack Bike.
[/rant]

Um just use the new codex?

an easy way to solve all ravenwing problems.
kill the master, re-paint and use as a custom chapter from dex marines.
cheaper everything and better rules.

MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:Um just use the new codex?

JD21290 wrote:an easy way to solve all ravenwing problems.
kill the master, re-paint and use as a custom chapter from dex marines.
cheaper everything and better rules.

Oh, don't get me wrong, that's what I'm going to do.

Its just frustrating that they said the DA codex would be how all Space Marine 'dexes are in the future and it is obviously not.

Sorry about getting so off topic.

Oh, don't get me wrong, that's what I'm going to do.
Its just frustrating that they said the DA codex would be how all Space Marine 'dexes are in the future and it is obviously not.
Sorry about getting so off topic.

i know the feeling mate, they make something great, then a few months later they ruin it.
hence why im letting the ork dex settle incase they do anything stupid.
SW needed a new codex badly, but the way GW are going the chapter will end up "lost" and no longer available.

Ravenwing have scout -- marine bikes (generally) don't. Even Khan doesn't give them scout, just outflank.

Ravenwing can take a flying landraider.

Ravenwing command squad scores (very minor bonus)

If none of that interests you then yeah the SM codex is a better fit. Granted, many White Scar players were using the RW when it came out, since 4ed WS rules sucked. The pendulum has swung, it will probably swing back again.

Alpharius wrote:You are wrong!

But I'm saying the same thing you are.

The new Space Marine codex is only replacing the old Space Marine codex.

The DA, BA, BT and yes, even the SW Codices still stand.

That's what I was saying.

Can't wait for the FAQ/Patches for those particular books!

GW has already said that there will not be such FAQs. Deathwing Cyclone launchers will fire 1 missile while ones from C-SM will fire 2. Deathwing and Blood Angel Terminator storm shields will give you a 4+ only in close combat, while those from the C-SM will give a 3+ invulnerable. FAQs that change things like that aren't even in the works.

JD21290 wrote:

Oh, don't get me wrong, that's what I'm going to do.
Its just frustrating that they said the DA codex would be how all Space Marine 'dexes are in the future and it is obviously not.
Sorry about getting so off topic.

i know the feeling mate, they make something great, then a few months later they ruin it.
hence why im letting the ork dex settle incase they do anything stupid.
SW needed a new codex badly, but the way GW are going the chapter will end up "lost" and no longer available.

Make something great? Dark Angels? What?