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I think it would be cool to get some people’s play testing experience with the SAG

Has it paid off more often than not for you? Does it get shot up right away? Does it appear to be working for you opponent about half the time? Does it make up its own points more often than not?

Let’s hear about the epic failure or when it scattered away from the marines I shot at but took out a whole term squad because I rolled double 6’s. (If I could only figure out how to repeat that )

I am on the fence trying to decide if I should run it on the regular or not.

I love the shokk attack gun. It's inaccurate, but when it hits... wow.

The only thing I was slightly depressed about the first time I used it was that while it killed a deathwing sergeant, apothecary and lightning claws termy, his grot unit killed a deathwing standard bearer with AC, a normal termy and wounded Belial...

It is fun, but rarely has it been useful.

BTW, I asked Phil Kelly at Baltimore GD about scattering on doubles or 11. He said no, you only roll scatter if you don't roll on the chart. If you roll doubles, you ONLY do what is on the chart - no scatter.

Since the codex doesn't say that, and it's not in a FAQ, you're basically screwed for playing that way though...

I have been playing that way already. You roll for S first. If you don't get doubles you use the regular scatter rules. If you do you go with the chart. Seems pretty RAW to me. Remember 5th now has a clear codex supersedes rulebook rule now, so a lot of fiddly things that might have needed a faq in 4th no longer do.

Reading it again I can see how it would work that way. I would say you might be able to argue the point either way. I am not sure if not scattering on doubles makes the gun better or worse though?

every time ive had the pleasure to play with a SAG it has been fantastic. its a peice of equipment that really lightens the mood of a game.

as far as playability is concerned, it provides armour busting ability that orks generally lack in other areas, but it is too random to be relied upon to heavily. having said that, i have seen it do some sick things.

so if you get double 6's it doesnt scatter?

biztheclown wrote:I have been playing that way already. You roll for S first. If you don't get doubles you use the regular scatter rules. If you do you go with the chart. Seems pretty RAW to me. Remember 5th now has a clear codex supersedes rulebook rule now, so a lot of fiddly things that might have needed a faq in 4th no longer do.

The problem with that assertion is that there is nothing in the missfire rules that indicate once you roll on the missfire chart you suddenly ignore the rest of the shooting rules, and in fact the rules are pretty unplayable if you follow that line of reasoning.

We are all in agreement that you roll on the missfire chart before rolling for any scatter, but then depending on the missfire result you have to return to the basic steps of shooting and there just isn't any reason you shouldn't jump right back in on the rolling for scatter (to hit) step.


For example, say you roll the missfire that allows the enemy to place the marker where they want. After that is done you clearly continue on with the shooting steps when it comes to rolling to wound, armor saves and casualty removal, correct? So why would you skip the to hit (scatter) roll?

There just isn't anything in the RAW that says you do.


By the RAW you roll on the missfire chart and then if the effect is something that continues to use the shooting rules (as opposed to say, teleporting the Mek) you would continue on with the steps for shooting which would naturally include the 'to hit' (scatter) roll.

To sum up.
If one doesn't return to the normal shooting rules, one cannot wound with the SAG.
Where does one return? Simply where one left off. Right before rolling the scatter die.

Unless specifically told not to, one have to return to the normal shooting rules.

I don't know, it seems like that could go either way. Reading it again, I am still inclined not to scatter the chart results, mostly because I think the chart is too funny to allow it to scatter to no effect. I also think that in the case of the "oops" or "gah" result you could let the opponent pick which model to center the blast on if it hits friendlies. Plus, I trust budro and Phil on this....

Trust has nothing to do with it. If GW/Phil Kelly wanted a departure from the normal shooting procedure, surely they would have included words to that effect. (I know, hard to write and keep a straight face at the same time. )

the SAG is a great tool. it allows you to keep an HQ with a troops unit on your home objective.

it fires AP2 ordinance. the misfires are rare and the ones that hurt you bad are even rarer.

it negates FNP, and more often than not is str 5-str 9. this is more than sufficient.

with great risk comes great unpredictability. be prepared to potentially have it blow up in your face. if you cannot accept that kind of liability don't take it

NaZ

Echo the previous post!

The SAG is FANTASTIC! And if for no other reason that it is very amusing when it fails to do what it can. The SAG helps you keep your sense of humour, which is one of the joys of playing ork.

The range of the gun, the size of the template and the AP2 mean that it has a hell of a lot of power for 60 points, it is worth at least the same as a vindicator's cannon. In most games it should easily return its point cost in terms of kills. It is not only the only AP2 orks get, it is one of the few 60" weapons in the game, so it is easily better than devastators, Dark Reapers or anything else along the lines of infantry stand and shoot. With luck it can potentially exceed even a group of Broadsides, and it is way cheaper than they are.

Unless you roll.....a 1,1 2,2 or 5,5 hahaha.

Definitely worth it. Those few times it fails will always be worth it for the giggle factor. The memorable games aren't always the ones where you cream the enemy. They are also the ones where you were about to win and.......

You can play shooty defensive orks with two SAGS. The beauty of that is outshooting guys and forcing them to charge you! hahaha!

I have had excellent success with the SAG. It can take out those crucial enemies before they can do anything.

With the SAG, I've busted:

2 Hammerhead tanks
A whole unit of Fire Warriors
Chunks out of nasty units like Dire Avengers, Kaskrin, and Grey Knights.
A Daemonhunters Grand Master (250 points right there, and that guy could have raped my army at the time)

The SAG, imo, is very good at making it's points back.

I've used them to good effect some games and had them be utterly ineffective in others. It's random, totally random.

Very Orky!

For me, it more or less never worked, and I used it for probably about 3 months, if not longer. I got one double 6, and that time it was going against a vehicle and took off a weapon...

I just get unlucky with it, but personally, I don't use it or recommend it.

Orc Town Grot wrote:It is not only the only AP2 orks get...

With the exceptions of the Zzap power, Zzap Guns, Snazzguns, Da Rippa, and Kustom Mega-Blastas.

I'll rephrase that:

It's the only GOOD AP 2 orks get. But I think the ZZAP power is a good one, so even that would be wrong.

Snazzgunz...well range 24. Assault 1 AP 2 only if you roll it and expensive BS2 shooting? That isn't good. ZZAP guns? ok..... but I'm not gonna use em. DaRippa is good. I was thinking BIG template that even when it misses hits things!

SAG is the AP 2 that I want to use. Because it is always AP 2 and its a pie plate like a vindicator, and that is AP 2 that can make a whole squad of terminators DIE.

While a megblaster is more likely to burn an AP 2 hole in the head of the idiot using it.

I have seen a two shokkmek and 30 loota army waste Deathwing, between the massed firepower and the wierd blasts there was pretty much nothing left of the marines after vturn three. Nothing much left of the orks either. Not from return fire, that killed about for orks IIRC, no. One of the shokk attack guns blew up and destroyed a whole loota mob and well over half of the second in a 6" radius meltdown, all bunched up in available cover you see.

You really cannot afford to have a shokkmek near anything you cannot afford to lose. The game still ended up a draw.

I love the SAG to death (quite literally, as the mek that carries it has never survived a battle!)

he always makes up for it in points and/or sheer entertainment value though

Im even considering taking two

The thing is only 100 points + bodyguard. Take it, use it, love it. Just don't cry when it pops first turn .

Want to know what's better than a Shokk Attack Battery in Apoc? TWO SHOKK ATTACK BATTERIES!