Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know it was debated highly, thanks to mystics, but I can't remember if the squad in the pod counts as deep striking as well. Does 5th ed add any clarity to this question? The reason I ask is this, if the answer is no then a scout squad can assault from a deep striking Storm.

Depends. In the old Space Marine codex, Drop Pods function like Deepstrike, but are not Deepstrike. In every codex since (DA, BA, and new SM Codex) they function as a form of Deepstrike, and are subject to Mystic shooting.

I'm curious about the unit inside the pod or transport. Since the Storm is an open topped vehicle If the squad inside doesn't count as deepstriking(but riding in a deep striking vehicle) then the scouts could assault that turn.

Not that that will be a really big problem. Most mystic weapons arn't going to be uber effective against AV12. And even if they do blow up the drop pod, the unit inside still gets out and can function as normal.

However it may be a big problem if you have two or more Mystics as that allows a nearby unit to take the 'free' shots instead.

The unit inside counts as Deepstriking too - ruling in the past has been that Mystics can choose to shoot either the Drop Pod or the Unit, not both.
The fact that the unit is DS-ing is why they cannot assault after deploying from the Drop Pod.

Ahh, that sucks. Its not the way I read it originally, but ok. It has to do with not being able to draw LOS to the models in the transport. Which until the drop pod opens, the unit inside can't be shot.

I'd be interested in order of operations at exactly what point does the mystics shoot, but it might not matter.

It could be argued that the inablity to assault after deep strike is a function on the Drop pod as it is explicitly stated in the new DEX. I don't have the 5th rule book so I can't speak for it's wording of deep strike, but the Marine Dex Drop Pod Entry pg 69 "A unit that deep strikes via drop pod may not assault in the turn it arrives."

This isn't as simple as I thought it was. The first part of the rule suggests that the unit is in fact deep striking, but that makes the second part redunant and confusing because, deep striking units can assault. So, why say it again?

But my real question is reguarding a deep striking Storm Land speeder w/ 5 scouts can they assault from the transport?

"A unit that deep strikes..", IMO, defines the unit as deep striking. The drop pod is simply their transport which deep strikes as well.

But is the unit inside actually deepstriking? The drop pod is a unit in all aspects of the game. I wonder if the unit inside actually is deep striking or if it is the pod that is deepstriking and the unit is just along for the ride. After all, if it wasn't for the drop pod, they wouldn't even have the option.

Much like an other transport. A vehicle that moves 12" has moved 12", the unit inside it didn't move itself, it just went along for the ride. Otherwise the rule that models inside a transport count as moving for situations involving shooting wouldn't be necessary. If a vehicle drives over dangerious terrain, the models inside don't have to make checks/saves because they are in fact not moving over the dangerious terrain.

But they did, in fact, move - as models with heavy weapons cannot fire if the vehicle they are riding in moves. So your argument only partially holds water.

The line on PG 66 says...

"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves."

Its says counts as moving. Not are moving, did move, or some other such wording that actually says the unit did infact move.

I guess its a matter of what ones definition of "counts as" is.

A ork mek with a SAG who teleports himself into a unit counts as initiating an assault. He did this during the shooting phase (where under normal rules you can't initiate an assault), he did it without actually having to declare you are assaulting said unit.

You can count as something without actually having gone through the steps of doing it.

You're making your own argument here, lol. You can "count as" Deep Striking by deploying from a Drop Pod - without having gone through the normal steps. You're still subject to any limits that have not been expressly breached.

Yeah, I don't really know which direction I'm arguing here. What I wonder is, and had yet to be addressed, is when do the shots happen. When you place the marker, after scatter, after final placement? The DS unit could be in range of the spot distance when placing the marker, but deviate outside the spot distance after the scatter. Or if it scatters behind LOS blocking terrain and still be within the spot distance, does it still get shot at?

I only ask because if they get to shoot when the marker is originally placed, it would be impossible to hit the unit inside as they would be out of LOS, as the unit does not deploy until after scatter.

I'm not really trying to prove one way or another, I just wonder as my next army will probably have a large number of DS units in it.

The mystic rules in codex: Daemonhunters says "these shots are taking before the enemy unit moves" or something to that effect, which to me would mean it must occur before the space marines can make their disembark move which they are forced to take "immediately" but are also said to do "as normal" and a normal disembark move is in the movement phase, and is a form of movement.

This poses another interesting question though, which is, if you accept my hypothesis that you take the shot before the unit disembarks, is the drop-pod open topped at the time or not? It's statline lists it as open topped, and it says under the fire points and access rule listed that once the drop pod is deployed it is no longer a sealed environment and counts as open topped.

I suppose once you have placed it for it's deep striked it is "deployed" and as such open topped? Those mystics must have good prescience if they can tell a unit when to shoot to get the drop pod after it blows it's hatches but before the marines charge out.

The Mystics allow you to fire at either the Drop Pod or the disembarking unit (but not both), says so in the DH FAQ. This would mean that the shots are
1) not performed until after the unit has disembarked, and
2) that the unit counts as deepstriking.

Jayden63 wrote:But is the unit inside actually deepstriking? The drop pod is a unit in all aspects of the game. I wonder if the unit inside actually is deep striking or if it is the pod that is deepstriking and the unit is just along for the ride. After all, if it wasn't for the drop pod, they wouldn't even have the option.

Much like an other transport. A vehicle that moves 12" has moved 12", the unit inside it didn't move itself, it just went along for the ride. Otherwise the rule that models inside a transport count as moving for situations involving shooting wouldn't be necessary. If a vehicle drives over dangerious terrain, the models inside don't have to make checks/saves because they are in fact not moving over the dangerious terrain.

Funny how these things come around. See my sig for the last time!