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Hi i just wondered what you guys thought, i think i has the potential to dish out a fair amount of damage whilst still be able to take and contest objectives with the mobile units in the army and take and hold its own

HQ

Master : Twin-Lightning Claws , Jump Pack , Iron Halo , Artificer Armour , Terminator Honours , Frag Grenades : 186pts

Elites

Dreadnought : Lascannon , Missile Launcher : 135pts

Troops

8 Space Marines : Heavy Bolter , Plasma Gun : 135pts

8 Space Marines : Heavy Bolter , Plasma Gun : 135pts

8 Space Marines : Lascannon , Plasma Gun : 145pts

8 Space Marines : Lascannon , Plasma Gun : 145pts

Fast Attack

8 Assault Marines Vet , Power Fist , Flamer : 212pts

Heavy Support

Vindicator: 125pts

Vindicator: 125pts

5 Devastators 4 Missile Launchers 155pts


Total Points: 1498pts

Whats your plan on taking care of two loota squads with 48" range?

I was thinking mainly using the missile launchers in combination with a few things at the end of the day both units will have to shoot 8 space marines to guarentee to wipe them out as lootas can be rather unpredicatble allowing me to bring the vindicators to bear realistically have to have those to units move up the point of the army is that it is designed to contest and take objectives whilst still being able to shoot the army and take a few things in combat as assault marines especially 8 of them can be quiet survivable to deliver the captain and still be strong enough to cause some wounds, that was my thinking anyway i have a rather large space marine army so pick and choose units that may fit in better

Unless you know what your going to be looking at, your leader just seems a bit toooo costly. 186 points is a chunk load of points for a three wound leader. With the rules now I dont see single combat leader really breaking the mold any more. Another thing to look at is having inq lord with a psychic hood. Add in a couple of mystic and you have just cacelled out a daemon players game for the day. It maybe be a bit of a odd thing to do but would really put a trick or two in your list to cancel something out completly.

With run I would stick the power fist back on the dread. You never know when you might want to use a vindi as a shield for your dread so that he can get down field and wreck some havick.

BTW TH Skill now works on liths, so your going to be handing out Str 10 lascannon shoots now.

Two flamers would be really nice in your assault sqaud. Then again you will have to find the points for that.

List seems good just that you might want to invest in some form of Anti DS and anti Psychic? These are trump cards of which might not always pan out but if they do, they do big time. I have seen whole choas armies vanish, DP unable to lash, Eldar unable to fortune, and a fair amount of other odds and ends.

hmm i can see what your saying and it makes sense, what about a cheaper librarian with might of heroes, that could do the trick and be less expensive to run and tbf i gain 2 benefits there, 1) a force weapon which lets face it can come in useful every now again, and 2) the psychic hood which thankfully still works properly as i have to use the older marine codex for the GT as the new one won't be out in time, however when it does come out i will be running a 6 dread army for giggles...anyway back to my point, the second flamer is a thought and the unit is then very good at hitting units like orks, the dread now that is an option however i was thinking of using it as a fire support vehicle to stalk around and shoot armour and the extra ML shot may come in handy however that may get taken out after some playtesting and i've heard of other peoples opinions on here

I have not had time to put together a comprehensive list for you. I've tried similar balanced marine lists in the past, won a few games, then lost horribly against armies like Tau, which can just paste you with insane amounts of fire. The only 4th edition SM army which did well at any of the USA tournaments was based on the Assault Cannon, which has been partially nerfed, but not totally. Players in USA also originally thought that the new 5th edition VC meant 'bring lots of troops', but this is really debateable, since troops tend to be the most vulnerable KP. ANYONE CAN CONTEST AN OBJECTIVE....

I'm not sure how the points work, but I'd start out planning to play 3 Landraiders. Stuff them with whatever you have points for , then take a couple of minimum sized troop squads to sit on your objective. I'd make one of them an Inquisitor with Mystic for use against Daemons.

Why the Landraiders? Because of Lootas. They don't hit often, but the strength 7 is the bane of foot marines. You definitely need something to contest Lash and Eldar psychic powers, the Psychic Hood. Genestealers don't much like the Landraider either.

The goal with the 3 landraider army is to occupy one objective, then contest the others with the Landraiders. The fact that you have to Hit, then Penetrate, then destroy 1/3 makes them very durable, at least until more players start bringing multimeltas.

The new codex will bring many neat toys, llike the conversion beamer. But, it will take away your Assault Cannons. In the USA, SM did not do well under 4th edition except at one AARDBOYZ event where an army with massed Assault Cannons placed second. This is another possible template. Grab as many twin ASsault Cannon Terminator squads as possible, and a couple of small units of infantry in drop pods. Plan is to drop on two objectives while the Terminators contest the rest with a torrent of fire and decent saves. In a bad matchup, at least your terminators can deep strike rather than having to be pasted from long range without reply, as in your current army. Gamble yes, but gives one a chance at least.

A third list might be foot slogging with maximum Apothecaries to help you with missed saves (I forget the particular doctrine involved).

The Vindicator Pie Plates seem nice, but it is very hard in my experience to stop an enemy from getting a flank shot against them, at which point, you die. I loved my Dreadnaughts, but on turn one vs. Tau you'd better hope to have terrain or come in from reserve or, its not good.

Again, I haven't run the numbers, but a swarm of land speeders might also be fun. You can deep strike to get the first shot, the flamer/multimelta combo is actually quite nice, covers Orks/tanks.

I think that standing around with 3+save marines on foot is just not going to be competitive against Lootas, Plague Marines (t5), Lash, Eldar Pie Plates, Tau Railguns. Sisters shoot better and are cheaper to boot.... Is it the simple Mystic that gives you a shot against deep striking Daemons, whatever it is, you'll need that too for your Vindicators....

I think 4th edition SM need to overload in some area to present your opponent with a definite problem, and build an army that can get first shot or lots of shots. Taking one extra flamer in one squad, or one more meltagun in another is not going to make much difference when the Scuttling Gene Stealers come in from both table edges, or the 150 Orks come running at you, they don't even die if you blow up their trukks!

Mike Guth

Nicely said Mike.

yeah, very well done Mike. I learned quite a bit there (not that that is much of a stretch, mind you)

Not original, more a summary of some of the SM list ideas that floated around over the past year combined with a bit of theory on 5th edition.

At the FLGS at 1500 points and below my son and I have found that even ONE Landraider can present a challenge.

I believe that Stelek has pointed out that it is harder for Vanilla Marines to come up with a good Landraider swarm than BT, or DH. So, maybe a Terminator Assult Cannon swarm would be better.

Mike