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So I was playing a game yesterday against a CSM army that had a squad of termies armed with combi weapons. His list did not specify which special weapon was purchased. So he proceeds to fire the squad and says "I am going to choose plasma" I thought you had to specify which combi you were buying on the army list and I thought you had to have it correctly modeled. Since the codex lists all combi weapons as one selection and they do not make a combi-plasma bit, my opponent felt he could just choose each game which combi to use.
Has anyone else run into this? Is there any truth to my opponents strategy?

Thats kind of silly...the codex is pretty specific that you're buying a "combi-plasma" or a "combi-flamer" or whatever. Not a "combi-weapon o' your choice". Never encountered someone trying to do that though, but I can't see any arguments for it.

It does suck though that there is no combi-plasma bits, lots of different strange plasma-pistol barrel glued to my bolter conversions out there because of that.

The Terminator needs to be modeled (or declared at the beginning of the game in casual play) to represent what it is armed with.
In this case it would need to be converted.
a combi-flamer is a combi-flamer, and a combi-melta is a combi-melta. and never the twain shall meet

@Lambadomy, I thought that too. And it was that way in the old Codex. The new CSM codex lists "combi weapon" as a choice for chosen and for termies. It is not specific anymore in the codex.

lambadomy wrote:Thats kind of silly...the codex is pretty specific that you're buying a "combi-plasma" or a "combi-flamer" or whatever. Not a "combi-weapon o' your choice". Never encountered someone trying to do that though, but I can't see any arguments for it.

It does suck though that there is no combi-plasma bits, lots of different strange plasma-pistol barrel glued to my bolter conversions out there because of that.

Actually, the codex just has you buying a "combi weapon", so I can see where the guy got the idea from. However, beyond that is the whole WYSIWYG aspect, whilst in the army list all you buy is "a combiweapon", elsewhere it's pretty clear that a combiweapon is only ever either a flamer,melta or plas. As such, you would need to model it appropriately, and would be bound by your modeling choices.

So basically, the only way around that would be to have the weapons magnetised and to hot swap them before the game. Personally, I think that totally goes beyond the spirit of the game, and I would wager that any tourney umpire would consider it cheating and pull you up on it - which basically closes off any ambiguity.

Somewhere in a dark place... I wondered this exact thing awhile back, then reguarded it as just silly. Don' t really have a counter argument to it.

Well, I stand corrected. Weird. Thank god Gav Thorpe is leaving. Seems I can't find my codex to look at it more closely, so I'll try to avoid looking any dumber until I can do that.

Chaos Codex pg 83

"Combi-weapons
Combi-weapons are bolters that have been converted to house another weapon: a meltagun, plasma gun, or flamer. This extra weapon carries limited amumunition, allowing the weapon a single shot, perfect for shots of oppertunity. A model armed with a combi-weapon (combi-meltagun, combi-plasma gun or combi-flamer) may choose to fire either the bolter, or the other weapon. The bolter may be fired every turn, but the other weapon may only be used once per battle. You may not fire both weapons in the same turn."


The 'or' is an exclusive 'or' not an inclusive 'or'. You have to choose, meltagun, plasma gun, or flamer. This is also supported by the author, spelling out that there are 3 separate combi weapons in the parens. Also, as already stated by another poster, since the game is WYSIWYG, you aren't allowed to choose, mid-game.

Plus, the first sentence says, "...to house another weapon", not "...to house another 3 weapons". You get to choose what the other weapon is when you put the list together.


-M

however, if you had magnetised your terminator arms so that you could hold a different number of combi-weapons you would be able to change them inbetween games as the codex doesnt specifically state which weapon you are buying. you are unable to change a model during a game so you would have to choose before hand.

Regwon wrote:however, if you had magnetised your terminator arms so that you could hold a different number of combi-weapons you would be able to change them inbetween games as the codex doesnt specifically state which weapon you are buying. you are unable to change a model during a game so you would have to choose before hand.

I disagree. The rules for combi weapons say they have been converted to house another weapon. Not another three weapons.

Regwon wrote:however, if you had magnetised your terminator arms so that you could hold a different number of combi-weapons you would be able to change them inbetween games as the codex doesnt specifically state which weapon you are buying. you are unable to change a model during a game so you would have to choose before hand.

Nope... You have to declare what type of combi-weapon you're using before the tourney starts - it should be modeled as such... I don't care if you can change them out between games because you have magnets, your list should not change between tourney games.

This is much like the moron's that try and make different sized magnetic flying bases...

While I agree that modeling can (and really does with the TLOS) effect game play... models are meant to be static (aside from tank turrets) during games and between games in tourneys.

I would direct your opponent to the last question of the first page of the Dark Angles FAQ, which deals with exactly the same wording ambiguity in the DA book (minus the difference in points cost, of course.)

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1810079_DarkAngels_2008_5th_Edition_FAQ.pdf

Q. The equipment options list for the Company Veterans only mentions 'combi-weapon for +10 pts.' Can I pick any combi-weapon at the same cost of +10 pts.?

A. Yes, for +10 points they can have either a combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma.

Alternatively, you can just read the rules for Combi-Weapons on p.83 of Codex: Chaos.

The kicker here is... a logical person can come to the correct/fair read/interpretation...

However, when you run into THAT GUY, how do you counter the argument 100%? Other than an open handed smack across the mouth that is...

WYSIWYG.

Nuff said.

Steelmage99 wrote:WYSIWYG.

Nuff said.

I agree. The codex gives you three separate variations of a combi-weapon which you must choose from and then the WYSIWYG rule in the codex dictates that your model must be clearly armed with said weapon.

Ergo, it must be blatantly obvious to your opponent which combi-weapon type your model is carrying.