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I want to give a nod here to stelek, I think your 7LR list requires some playtesting against

what do you think are going to be the top competitor lists?

mech eldar?
mech tau?
3 monolith necrons (took 2nd in my group right behind me)
mech orks? (I took this and took 1st)

I think this discussion if taken seriously could benefit those of us that are preparing for the semifinals

NaZ

3 monolith necrons aren't a huge threat.

I think mech is the threat list, but the source of it is the question. Some armies (DH and Black templar) can run really large numbers of land raiders and I think LR are very hard to stop. I lost less than my total count of LR during the whole ard boyz. While I was playing against unoptimized lists, I've seen what alot of 'elite' players think are optimized and wonder what they are talking about. lol

I'm going to round up the LR to playtest against your list.

the 3 monolith player got tabled by me on the 4th turn. its a strong list but my mech orks have that well in hand.

I think mech eldar is going to be really strong, so is mass imperial guard thanks to how the kill points work unless they change them yet again

NaZ

Even with the best of conditions armour 14 is really tough.

I really cant see how Battlewagons will be stopped.

Nobz + rollaWagons = pure win.

Battlewagons get stopped because:

1) BS2.
2) Open topped.
3) Slow.

I will call it now and say the winner of the Ard Boyz finals will be John Blake, Brad Nickles, Adam Millman, or Andrew Parsons from NJ. I know their lists and their play styles. All of them won in there respective stores and we all play tested together. (I am playing in the GT instead since I prefer painted armies :p).... and I have a wedding to go to on the 11th

OK.. Adding to the Discussion EDIT:

BA with dante and corbs
or
Chaos with double lash and DSing termis with combi las/melta

I agree about the battlewagons assessment. I only took the 1.

armor 14 though and using my trukks to force obscured rolls makes it a lot harder to bring down.

frgsinwntr, that isn't really helpful to this discussion.

NaZ

I am only refering to 6+ BW's...

BS2... since when do BW shoot anything? and they will destroy landraiders with this STR 10 deathrollas every day without firing a shot.

They move 13" and deploy something that will assault you... slow? Minimum Assault range of 18" + Waagh

Another cute fact: Anyone ever been hit with 15 flamer templates from a single point on a vehicle, burna boyz and/or Kombiskortchas are something quite new to this game. Take your flamer and cover say 5 on average then multiply by 15 to see your number of hits. 45 hits.... Not bad eh? And they never have to even get out to shot at... cute.

Land Raiders will punk Battlewagons before they get punked.

7 LR vs 6 BW? Yes please. I think I can win just by taking side shots, and I'm not really afraid of Orks charging me out of the BW. Once you eat 3 flamer templates, there won't be many orks left.

All I have to do is get side shots on your battlewagon, and if you are one of those ever-so-clever guys who builds his wagons 3 feet wide by 2 inches deep...yeah, I'll take side shots on you as if you were not a 'model to gaming advantage' model.

Else I swear I'll bust out the 2 feet by 3 feet 'banners' for my lead raiders and claim you can't see the raiders behind then remove them during my turn.

Please note this is tongue-in-cheek humor. lol

I honestly PRAY the BW list gets crushed... I am not using Orks, or their horror of a vehicle, for this tourne, so this is only based on what I have seen locally and what the numbers crunch out to be.

Or, battlewagons with DRs with a mek and a KFF in the middle ones. 4+ cover against all shots! If your opponent is lucky, you're screwed. I speak from experience - 8 melta hits over 2 turns, made every single 4+ cover save. I was tearing my hair out.

Definitely bring lots of meltas on units that you can. Problem is going to be large-model-count Orks or Guard. Flamers are good, but you can only kill so much in the (likely) 2-4 turns you have to be within flamer range.

To do well, you have to be either a)unkillable to most weapons, b) have too many models to kill, or c) have the firepower to wipe your opponent off the board quickly. Plague Marines and LR/Bwagon spam fall into the first category. Drop/all-infantry guard and orks fall into the second category Armies that max on light transports and such (like all RB/Immy/Rhino armies) straddle these two. 45-Loota Orks or all-Disintegrator DE fall into the last category.

i will wait for the missions until I pick my list.

Oh absolutely 6 Battlewagons with Deffrolla's will crush 7 Land Raiders. They can move faster than the LR's, have 4+ obscurement saves from the two KFF's on board anywhere they go and deal d6 STR 10 hits automatically to the LR's when they touch them. They are almost half as many points (wagons, red, rolla, grot riggers) and can have a healthy dose of troops to go along with them.

Throw some meganobz in the elite wagons and they can assault, with str 9 powerklaws, while the wagons rolls over another vehicle. We have played it here in Chicago and it is quite powerful.

tzeentchling wrote:Or, battlewagons with DRs with a mek and a KFF in the middle ones. 4+ cover against all shots! If your opponent is lucky, you're screwed. I speak from experience - 8 melta hits over 2 turns, made every single 4+ cover save. I was tearing my hair out.

If you want to make it worse, do the choo choo train effect. 4+ cover save on the front battlewagon because of the KKF, 3+ cover save on everyone else going back as long as they are in the front arc.

2nd cheesiest formation allowed by the new rules.

Also longest formation allowed..

I hate to even mention this, because there may even be people out there that aren't worried about testing against it.

but I would have a lot of respect for a 9 wave serpent 3 fire prism army.

againt mech orks, you have to face down 3 fire dragon units, 9 strength 10 rams, and 3 strength 9 shots from fire prisms. You'll need 6's to hit the ramming serpents once you fall out of your wrecked wagon, the are only taking strength 8 hits back. Once the wagons are down, then its just a mop up job.


Another army I would be very interested in seeing, is something that just HURTS mech, while not really being mech at all. I have put NO thought into this at all, but off the top of my head, 3 drop pods filled with multi-melta dev squads, 9 broadside tau, an insane number of dark lances on foot... and other outside the box stuff.

Good thread...

I think we'll have to wait and see how the Semi-Finals rules and missions make a mess of everything before we'll know what is really good or bad.

I think the list to beat will be 2 x 20 plaguemarines with 2 lash sorcs, 9 oblits, and flavor troops. I hear everyone in the northeast who won a spot placed with that army.

Moz wrote:I think the list to beat will be 2 x 20 plaguemarines with 2 lash sorcs, 9 oblits, and flavor troops. I hear everyone in the northeast who won a spot placed with that army.

Ouch. I'm in the northeast and placed with only 1 lash sorcerer, 3 oblits and 1X9 plague marines

I was actually consider jungle fighters drop guard. KP-denial aside, the sheer number of meltaguns and heavy flamers is...amusing.

Daemons are pretty tough, Kairos + other stuff, and the 3 Soul Grinders. I think it's worth consideration.

3 Landraider builds. Load them with Khorne/Nurgle troops to claim objectives.

Till you run into Land Raiders and have a bad bad day, anyway.

I don't think much of BW crushing LR. I know how the obscurement rule works, the land raider rules work, and I'll gladly take my 3 LRC and pop MM shots into you from the front. Odds are not in your favor.

But the 7 LR army was not common while the Battlewagon bash army was more common.

And if you built a 'ard boyz list to counter the 7 LR list, you would probably be VERY vulnerable to many of the more common lists out there.

I think a list you will see 20 of is a bigger threat than a list you may see once.

I scored 3 straight massaces with an 8 big bugs list.

But worrying about the lists before we know the missions is jumping the gun somewhat. Some things will always be a threat, yes, but if the missions have weird deployments and such, it would change the metagame dramatically.

My Semi Finals list is a secret though. I will say it is gawd awful cheese that fears no Ork or monster bugs or pretty much anything else

Hopefully you will post it, and battle reports WITH PICS, after.

Mech blood angles

Krootman wrote:Mech blood angles

Obtuse, acute, or the dreaded right angles of doom?

tear I in stat class when I typed that

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Moz wrote:I think the list to beat will be 2 x 20 plaguemarines with 2 lash sorcs, 9 oblits, and flavor troops. I hear everyone in the northeast who won a spot placed with that army.

Ouch. I'm in the northeast and placed with only 1 lash sorcerer, 3 oblits and 1X9 plague marines

I placed with sisters. Not going because I have a wedding to go to.

NJ results I know of listed first to 3rd
Brick NJ - Horde orks, ???, ???
West Windsor - Bag o Bugs, BA, Orks
Somerville NJ - Marines, sisters, ???
Woodbridge NJ - Lash chaos, BA, ???

Most of them are people I play with all the time