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Are Terminators w/ Mark of Khorne worthless?

One would think, given how strong terminators are already, that +1 attack might not be worth paying for. However, the Forge World resin World Eaters are amazingly badass, and I'm wondering if I purchase them if I'd ever use them competitively. I don't currently play Chaos, but I'm familiar with the Codex and have played against several times.

Does anyone have any experience gaming with Khorne termies?

Personally I think an 8 or 10 strong cc-oriented Khorne Termie unit would be utterly devastating.
However, 4x Terminators w/Lord +Daemon weapon, in a Land Raider, has also been suggested.

If you have any experience with Khorne Terminators, or any advice on how to build a successful Khornate army, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks!

I have seen them used to great effect. As long as you plan to get the termies in close combat ASAP. The additional atack is great when you consider that all the attacks will be power attacks or fists.

Mark of Slaanesh is my favorite but Khorne is my second choice.

I like my khorne terminators.
but to be honest berzerkers are way better.
the problem are
the icon bearer can be killed in the first round of bolter fire and you have plain terminators
the icon is spendy 3 khorne termis have 12 attacks on the charge 4 normal termis same cost has 12 attacks + 1 extra wound.
termis can't sweep so not only do you get shoot by everybody that squad that just ran away could rally. at least berzerkers can sweep.
nothing is as sad as well khorne terminators run away.

buy them. in a few years cult terminators will come back and they will be rock hard again

when i need to quickly and easily add a 500pt block to a game, I'll grab my land raider, give it some extra armour and then add 5 Khorne Termi's 4 with pairs of lightning claws and one with a fist and heavy flamer, there are better things, but that is one fun combination!

I think the Land raider plan is better than the big slogging squad plan. Competitive enough I'd say.

Yup. If you take some Lesser Daemons with the Terminators, then you'll have a unit to win the Sweeping Advance roll when both engage in assault, or alternately to gum up shooting units that might otherwise shoot your Terminators after they win the combat.

Well, I'm going to post an army list, and y'all can let me know if it's worth anything.

WORLD EATERS ARMY - 1750

Kharn the Betrayer - 165
or
Chaos Lord - 160
Mark of Khorne
Personal Icon
Terminator Armor
Bloodfeeder

10 Chaos Terminators - 410
Icon of Khorne
3x Power Fist
2x Reaper Autocannon

10 Chaos Terminators - 410
Icon of Khorne
3x Power Fist
2x Reaper Autocannon

10 Khorne Berserkers - 290
Skull Champion with Power Fist
Personal Icon
.............Rhino

10 Khorne Berserkers - 290
Skull Champion with Power Fist
Personal Icon
.............Rhino

8 Lesser Daemons - 104

8 Lesser Daemons - 104


Depending on which HQ I choose, I can either drop 2 Daemons or 1 Khorne Berserker to get the list to 1747.

Now, I want this list to be both fluffy and effective. Obviously I will *lose* at an 'Ard Boyz tournament, but 'Ard Boyz isn't my thing anyway. Does a list like this have a chance at oh, say, a Rogue Trader tourney? How would you beat it? What do you like about it?

If I were you, I would take Kharn over the bloodfeeder Lord. And yes, this list can work if run correctly.

I like it, it will be different but all khorne should be fun. Question to me would be do you need 3 power fists in the squads? All have power weapons and you have a potentially disgusting khorne lord. One chainfist should get the job done on any landraider you want to tear apart and you just saved 15 points per squad.

My other recommendation would be to drop the reapers and go with heavy flamers. Use your berzerkers to rhino rush and then drop the termies in off of the berzerkers' icons. Saves you a bunch of points and then you are getting into the vacinity of a 3rd rhino and a few more berzerkers. (Be old fashioned and drop them to squads of 8.) Not dependable but add a combi-melta to each rhino and you have some light anti-tank if you get a rhino ignored as they try to light up berzerkers and terminators.

The meat of this army is going to be the termies so protect them for that extra turn by deep striking them in. The termie lord with the demon blade will be very hit or miss. Think of it this way, out of 36 possibilities on 2D6, 11 times you will roll a 1. Are you okay with 1/3 take a wound 2/3 annihilate a squad on your own? Otherwise go dependable and give him the two lightning claws.

A slightly different take, with the bonus that you can pick a berserker unit to transport Kharn in

Kharn - 165

2x - 8 Chaos Terminators, Icon of Khorne, 2x P Fists, H flamer - 295 ea

4x 8 Berserkers , Skull Champ, P Fist, P icon, Rhino - 248 ea

Total 1747

Bonus:
Dropping one Berserker squad puts you at 1499 for 1500 pt games.

Just try not to play any mech skimmer armies.

If I were you, I would take Kharn over the bloodfeeder Lord. And yes, this list can work if run correctly.

Awesome, thank you. I will probably buy both HQs for sake of versatility, but I'm already anticipating Kharn being my workhorse.

nothing is as sad as well khorne terminators run away.

Haha, so true. Makes for a good story with your gaming buds though.

A slightly different take...

Thanks Delemon. That's a cool alternate list.

The main reason for my interest in World Eaters is Forge World's resin upgrades. It would be tricky for me to find 1 extra Terminator and 2 extra Berserker upgrades, but I think it's pretty sound. I'd have to probably hunt Trading forums for awhile, but it could be worth it.

My other recommendation would be to drop the reapers and go with heavy flamers.

A good suggestion... I worry HFs will remove models I may want to charge into, however. Past experience with playing as Loyalists has made me not-a-fan of Flamers in CC-oriented units... Besides, I like the aesthetic of the Autocannon.

The termie lord with the demon blade will be very hit or miss.

Hmm... I may have to magnetize his arms. The Lightning-Claw Khornelord is better, but I can't deny myself the appeal of going all "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" even if it's my own. Part of the appeal of Khorne is the ridiculousness of the Bloodfeeder.

Khorne Armies are terrible.

If you really just HAVE to make one, call in some favors and proxy it.

See how bad it really is.

Nurglitch, if the Lesser demons charge in with the khorne terminators, the enemy will direct their attacks towards the demons, basically screwing up your combat result and giving the terminators a chance to lose.

If 5 or 10 khorne terminators charge with some daemons, the enemy should be DEAD or lose by so much it won't matter. Plus, if the terminators get 5 or 6 in btb contact, and the daemons get a couple more, then only half the enemy squad can devote their attacks to the daemons.

Plus, My favorite tactic is to get daemons in btb with veteran sergeants and the like, the guys with the special close combat weapons, so that their best weapons are killing 13 point daemons that have a chance to save rather than marines, or much more expensive terminators. Daemons still have plenty of uses.

Stelek wrote:Khorne Armies are terrible.

If you really just HAVE to make one, call in some favors and proxy it.

See how bad it really is.

But they can be fun!

Especially using mono khorne demon's there's nothing as interesting as watching a marine players face when they realise everything ignores armour saves - not overly competative, but can hold it's own

agreed khorne armies are bad. berzerkers really needed to have fleet. you have to make up for the slow with the lash.

theblklotus wrote:Nurglitch, if the Lesser demons charge in with the khorne terminators, the enemy will direct their attacks towards the demons, basically screwing up your combat result and giving the terminators a chance to lose.

Good point, and I would agree with this statement for 95% of the units in the game. However, leaving a group of Khorne Terminators alone to unleash their full destructive potential could more than balance out the extra losses taken by the daemons.

theblklotus:

So let me see if I understand what you're saying. You're saying that if I charge a unit of 30 Ork Boyz, including a Nobz with a Power Klaw, with a unit of five Chaos Terminators with an Icon of Chaos and a unit of five Lesser Daemons, the Orks will be more likely to win and Sweeping Advance the Terminators than if only the Terminators attacked? Is that correct?

Yes... they are. Those lesser daemons with their 5+ save are going to go down in droves compared to 2+ terminators. Those 5 daemons are as good as dead, and need to kill 5 orks to make up for that.
Now, it might work out even up eitherway. Maybe the daemons kill 5+ orks, and so benefit the Chaos side of the melee over all. If they don't though, they hurt things a bit.

Just bear in mind that in melee a 4 point ork counts the same as a 15 point daemon or a 40 point terminator when it comes to figuring out who died the most.

5 terminators, 20 attacks, 10 hit, 5 wound, 5 dead orks.

5 daemons, 15 attacks, 8 hit, 4 wound, about 4 dead orks.

The daemons average 4 dead orks and that's not so great considering the orks will probably kill all 5 daemons, but if you consider that the terminators already fired with a heavy flamer [kill 5 or so depending], and 8 bolter shots [5 hit, re-roll 7 hit, 3-4 wound] then we've got the boyz down from 30 to 20-22 and then things are looking better.

Then again when you get right down to it you're putting the whole thing against ORKS in which case terminators are the WORST unit to be fighting them with as their power weapons are almost totally wasted - notice that the 5 daemons did almost as much damage as the 5 terminators not counting their shooting, all thanks to the boyz' less than stellar 6+ save.

Pit them against something more comparable, like space marines or other heavily armoured targets. Things that DON'T "take a beating and give it right back" like orks do so well.

Wehrkind:

I don't think five Lesser Daemons exactly qualifies as a drove. Since both Terminators and Lesser Daemons are I4, I'd expect them to kill, on average, about nine Orks. Even if all of the Daemons are killed, the Chaos side wins the combat.

A six point Ork may be just as much a casualty as a fifteen point Lesser Daemon or a forty point Terminator, but it's much easier to kill because of its pathetic Sv6 and I2. As is pointed out, the Daemons are almost as good at the Terminators because the Sv6 makes so little difference.

As Spellbound notes, the Terminators will usually shoot up the Orks before going charging in, unless they're armed with Lightening Claws (in which case they have five attacks each on the charge, re-rolling to wound, for about nine wounds on average, give or take).

If that does indeed drop them to twenty or below, either because it's a slightly above average round of shooting or the unit didn't start the turn at full strength, then you probably have about 36 attacks from Slugga Boyz and 24 attacks from Shoota Boyz, with 3 S8 Power Klaw Attacks.

Take the 36 attacks, all at the Lesser Daemons. Half hit, one third of the hits wound, one third of the wounds are saved. What's that, four wounds? That doesn't even kill all the Lesser Daemons.

If they're Shoota boyz, all at the Lesser Daemons, then that's two or three wounds.

The Nob'll be lucky, above average, since he should hit with half his attacks, wound with five sixths of them, and one third will be saved. He should kill one or two Terminators.

That's what, 9:6v5, so the Chaos side wins and the Orks suffer three or four more wounds bringing them into morale territory. Not exactly what I'd call "taking a beating and giving it right back."

The Orks can easily kill all five demons, and the Power Klaw Nob will take a few terminators as well. A 30 man ork squad will easily come out the other side of five terminators and 5 lesser demons, especially if they stick around for a turn or two.