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I know it's probably not that bright of an idea to post up my list here before the match, especially considering that I will be facing down some of the people who post here. But whatever, I'm going to live a litte

Of course the list is subject to change without notice once the missions get posted. I think that hammering out problems with the list is more valuable than secrecy. It's pretty flexible and will probably work well in whatever missions the Trade Sales team come up with.

And here we go:

=HQ=
Abbadon the Despoiler

=Elite=
4 x Terminators
Heavy Flamer
Icon of Khorne
Champ upgrade w/ claws

Land Raider Dedicated Transport
Daemonic Possession

5 x Terminators
Heavy Flamer
Icon of Khorne
Powerfist x 2
Champ upgrade w/ claws

Land Raider Dedicated Transport
Daemonic Possession

=Troops=
8 x Berzerkers
Skull Champ w/fist

8 x Berzerkers
Skull Champ w/fist

8 x Berzerkers
Skull Champ w/fist

=Heavy=
Land Raider
Daemonic Possession

Land Raider
Daemonic Possession

Land Raider
Daemonic Possession

I have a couple of points to play around with, adding twin linked bolters to the Land Raiders is where they are at now.

Abbadon is like car insurance. It's expensive and most the time unnecessary but when you need it, you're happy as hell to have it. MANZ, Nightbringers, WraithLords, all flavor of Big Bugs and Daemon Princes are not as scary when this guy is on your team.

10 Twin Linked lascannons gives me some hellish fire power should I need it. I know in advance that I am going to have trouble with LOS sometimes. The footprint on the Raider is just so big, I will be blocking my own shots often enough to worry about it.

I believe I can out assault Orks with this list. Even 200 of them. I have few bodies, but played right I can make them count. Grabbing 2 large units of boyz and directing as many attacks as possible against 1 of them should clear out a lot of return attacks and hopefully force them to lose combat by 8 or more...causing another 5 to 8 wounds from Fearless. Doubling my investment as it were. Then try to do it again the next round.

Drop Podding Melta's are an issue, but most people load up on plasma and I won't be ashamed to hug board edges and make them take a chance on scattering off the board.

Abbadon and all the Terminators are completely throw away. They can't score, I'll use the Land Raiders to contest and as long as they chew a big enough hole through the enemy army, they will have done just fine.

Thoughts?

Well, they are twin-linked BS 3 lascannons. I'd prefer to see some more meltas in the army, maybe in the termies, but should do well against a lot of armies out there.

Hmmm.

All I see is a shooting army with CC troops aboard.

Gonna do LR, do it. Just do it the scary way.

2500 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Unnamed

1 Chaos Lord @ 115 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon; Fearless; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Personal Icon

3 Terminators @ 365 Pts
Power Weapon (x3); Combi-flamer (x2); Heavy Flamer (x1); Land Raider
1 Land Raider @ [260] Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

3 Terminators @ 365 Pts
Power Weapon (x3); Combi-flamer (x2); Heavy Flamer (x1); Land Raider
1 Land Raider @ [260] Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

3 Terminators @ 365 Pts
Power Weapon (x3); Combi-flamer (x2); Heavy Flamer (x1); Land Raider
1 Land Raider @ [260] Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

4 Plague Marines @ 170 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Flamer (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [68] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Combi-flamer; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

4 Plague Marines @ 170 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Flamer (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [68] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Combi-flamer; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

4 Plague Marines @ 170 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Flamer (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
1 Plague Champion @ [68] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Combi-flamer; Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle

1 Land Raider @ 260 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Land Raider @ 260 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Land Raider @ 260 Pts
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon Sponson (x2); Havoc Launcher; Daemonic Possession; Dirge Caster; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost: 2500

There's not that much difference between the lists. One LR shouldn't make that much difference, I'd imagine. Bit less shooty though.

first off, good job on choosing abbandon, best leader there is atm.

second good thinking on the terminators, i might rethink having ten, depending on the mission and trading in a squad for some nomal csm. But otherwise good, cause abbandon loves having some termies to help kick ass.

and also in 5th edition, you dont need to deicate a transport to a squad, any squad that is aloud to ride in transport is aloud to jump in and out of any transport vehichle they wish.

Now the only peice of critisism i has is that you probly have one to many landraiders and one squad to may of berzerkers, if you dropped them you could always add some pplage marines, normal csm or a personal favourite, a few havocs. Depending on te mission though.

Keppe up the good work

BDA

You guys should listen to stelek more, he knows what he is talking about. LR filled with flamers=win.

However, this list looks like a less powerful verison of the GK list that Stelek brought to the first round, and doesn't really play to the strengths of the CSM list. I would suggest something more like this

Abaddon the despolier-275
total hq=275

5 Chaos terminators
+champ+chainfist
4 combi flamers 1 heavy flamer
+Mok=230

5 Chaos terminators
+champ+chainfist
4 combi flamers 1 heavy flamer
+Mok=230

5 Chaos terminators
+champ+chainfist
4 combi flamers 1 heavy flamer
+Mok=230

total elites - 690

troops
8 berzerkers+champ+PF+icon = 203
8 berzerkers+champ+PF+icon = 203
8 berzerkers+champ+PF+icon = 203
10 sommoned demons-130
10 summoned demons-130
total troops - 869

heavy support
chaos land raider - 220
chaos land raider - 220
chaos land raider - 220
total 660

total list 2494

the berzerkers get in the landraiders and move forward 12" popping smoke. I don't care who you are, popping a av14 on the first turn with a 4+ save is exceedingly difficult, especially if you are relying on meltas for anti-tank.

next turn the Berzerkers assault out of the LRs, supported by any demons that come in and the flamers of the deepstriking terminators.

It's not as Landraider spammy as the first list, or stelek's list, but I think this list plays more to the strengths of the CSM list, which is assaulting berzerkers, cheap flamerific terminators, and demon tarpit/assault assist units.

Also no units may be transported in a tank that has demonic possession, making it all but worthless to put on your landraiders.

Actually, they dropped that restriction on possession. That's why it's taken much more now. It was a silly restriction in the first place.

I really can't get along with a list for Ard Boyz that uses summoned demons. I just don't think they're that worth it, compared to normal marines. It could cause havoc in an army that wasn't prepared for it, though.

Well the difference between my list and this one is I think this one is slightly better.

It has no deep strike defense, but unlike the DH list...it has:

Havoc Launchers. Might not seem like much, but that long range firepower really adds up. S5 blasts x 6 helps make each LR more anti-infantry capable.

Dirge Casters break enemies. Got a average LD? Ok now take it at one less. Orks run away.

Bad bad men inside those LR's. Not girly men like mine had.

So trade one bonus which works only against certain armies, and 1 LR...for 6 vehicles all of which can sit there and pound your army at range. Unlike the GK army, which *had* to advance the LRC to bring their firepower to bear.

The other lack? Multimeltas are missing. Those are nice for killing weak vehicles (and giving you a chance to kill tough ones).

So I think for being able to survive once you get out of your raiders, this army has the other one beat hands down...and for not having any glaring weaknesses in certain chassis, these vehicles really can be quite nasty.

Minus 1 LR, add lots of firepower. Too bad Chaos won't get POTM back until next un-nerf edition of flavorful army books.

Then they'd be overpowered really. I think 6 blasts, 6 heavy bolters, and 12 lascannons can put a hurting into any horde army. Everything being twin-linked also seems nice.

I would definitely term this is a rush to the middle of the field then camp out kind of army. Can't really move it much because you can't move and fire it effectively.

tzeentchling wrote:Actually, they dropped that restriction on possession. That's why it's taken much more now. It was a silly restriction in the first place.

I really can't get along with a list for Ard Boyz that uses summoned demons. I just don't think they're that worth it, compared to normal marines. It could cause havoc in an army that wasn't prepared for it, though.

Summoned demons are deepstriking scoring units. That alone makes them awesome.

They are also deepstriking scoring units that don't scatter and can assault on the turn they enter, that makes them even more awesome.

They are the cheapest unit in the CSM book, adding badly needed bodies to a hyper-elite army. this makes them super awesome.

They are in a list with Berzerkers, which are scary on their own, but add in 30 extra WS4 Str4 I4 attacks and suddenly even 30 man ork bricks are vaporizing against that assault. that makes them double plus awesome.

If you're running 5 or 6 LR's, you could remove Daemonic Possession from your firebase LR's and leave it on the assaulting LR's. That way you reclaim some points and BS4 on your shooty units.

The problem with both zerkers and demons is they are torrent of fire units in CC. Some units can take that kind of beating and punch back harder than they do.

There is also the no consolidate / speed bumping 5th edition tactics revolve around, which make units like this iffy at best.

So what if you kill one squad? I'll charge you with 60 Orks next turn, and you won't survive the barrage.

It's not perfect by any means, is all I'm saying.

Landraider wars list. Great for Ardboyz, don't get me wrong but if this is the future of 5th edition what a sad state. You either have to build Raider lists or anti packed with huge load outs of melta equivalents.

Thanks for all the insight guys, lots to mull over.

Just a note though, Orks aren't a problem. Properly set up, I can take 60 Orks with 8 Berzerkers. Sounds crazy, but it's not really, it all bases on being able to grab 2 units of Boyz and count on Fearless wounds to do a lot of work for me.

8 Berzerkers on the charge net me about 14 kills on average. If I send as many as possible at unit A, I should reduce their return strikes signifigantly.

Unit B is going to hit me hard, but 60 attacks from Orks not on the charge averages out to 3 dead berzerkers.

Orks lose by 11 and each unit takes 11 armor saves, thinning the crowd down further. They have to pile in around me, which will block assaults the next turn.

I can then either leave them there to die or break them out with another assault in the following turn. I would try to use tank shock to send other Ork units scurrying out of the way and keeping them from ganging up too badly.

I like the daemons, but they are better used in a massive unit of 16+. I'd consolidate them into one mass of 20.

I'd also be seriously tempted to mix a couple of meltas into the termie squads, in case of other landraider lists.

Land Raider vs Land Raider is usually a draw. lol