Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sorry if this has been discussed.

As an example, 6 Flash Gitz with More Dakka are 180 points. 30 Shoota Boyz with no upgrades are also 180 points.

Flash Gitz have 12 wounds with a 4+ (so call it at best, 24 wounds vs Bolters), Shoota Boyz have 30 wounds and no save. Flash Gitz can take a Painboy, even if he cannot shoot anything. Call it even, why not.

Shoota Boyz are Fearless until they get down to 8 or 9 wounds. Flash Gitz are ld7. Flash Gitz suck.

Flash Gitz are S5 I4 A3+1 the turn they charge, assuming they do. Shoota Boyz have numbers. Call it even.

Shoota Boyz have the option for a Nob, of course and the Big Shootas. Flash Gits get that guy. Call it even.

Flash Gitz get their AP thing, so they can AP 4+ 2/3 of the time and 3+ half the time. They also get 24" range and the Gitfindas.

Conclusion: Flash Gitz are actually not bad. Just watch for BOOM S8 templates, but that can happen anyway.

-----------
Their real strength is sniping w/ the AP and the extra 6" range. So they can put the hurt on say a squad of Aspect Warriors or Sternguard Veterans that would otherwise ruin your day.

18 shots, 6 hits, something dies. Better with a good AP roll.

No save for boyz?You can easily find cover save for boyz in 5th,even without KFF.

Flash gitz are shooty units.So the only standard of evaluating them is:how well they did in shooting.

30 boyz.60 shots.20hits on average.10 wounds to T4 units.

12 lootaz.24 shots on average.8 hits.about 3 damages on an AV11 vehicle.

6 gitz.12 shots.4 hit on average.How many unsaved wounds?

Flash gitz do not suck.
when they are not BS2.

Gitfindas are pretty useless - seriously - you can't estimate 24" and figure out what's in range?

My main problem with them is the price coupled with no boss pole. Too easy to kill a few of them and make them run whereas a unit of shootas are: fearless, can get a nob with a pk and a bosspole (for when they are no longer fearless), cheaper and are scoring.

With the availability of cover, low AP weapons are no longer needed as much. Especially when you don't know what that AP might be.

Rather then compare them to shoota boyz (because you can't beat them for points/scoring/effectiveness), compare them to other HS choices. Here they are stacked up against KK, dreads, BW, looted wagons and big gunz. But that comparison is hard to make also becuase going with walkers, you want to saturate the field with them to spread the enemy lovin' around (2x3 KK and dread, maybe another dread in a troop choice). So it becomes the driving force behind the army.

So let's compare FG just to BW, LW and big gunz. Well, BGunz are cheap, better BS but fewer shots. You can add some ammo runts and make them even better at popping something. Can't move, no CC ability, sneeze at them and they are going away. Point-wise you're still better off with Big Gunz.

BW: provide the only AR14 in the list, transport, Rolla - can get your shoota boyz up close, or move fast and dump a unit of choppas where you need them. Prices start to get closer to FG, but still more expensive. However, one lascannon can toast it in one round. Assuming there's a KFF nearby this increases it's surviviability, but higher cost (though spread around with whatever else it is protecting).

Looted wagons - probably the best comparison wouldbe to a boom gun - since it's another lower AP weapon and higher cost (transport wagons are cheap and don't compete for the same type of slot, so I'm assuming a shooty version). Almost anything can shoot it and kill it, assuming they want to. Still cheaper then a unit of FG, but less survivable and less utility.

If you are going for an all infantry ork force, FG maybe provide some low AP weapons, on a unit with decent survivability, but with a fairly high cost. Once you start making them Assault2, painboy upgrade, CBB they get really expensive.

Here's another one. Flash Gitz vs Nobz.

Flash Gitz are Nobz, without close combat options.

6x Flash Gitz w/ More Dakka and 3x Ammo Runts are 195 points.

6x Nobz w/ Big Choppas, Stikkbombs, a Waaagh! Banner and 2x Kombi-Skorchas are 211 points.

The Flash Gitz are still S5 I4 A3+1 on the charge. The Nobz have Stikkbombs but the Flash Gitz get their AP shooting. Perfect for helping to deal with say a frontal squad of Assault Marines or Dire Avengers. Not the stuff behind it, with the cover save, but the stuff in front.

Their only weakness, the Nobz have access to their own Bosspoles, making it a perfect unit for a footslogging KFF Mek.

Granted they are still competing with 20x Shoota Boyz w/ a Nob, and they still take a Heavy Support slot. But they really bring some muscle to the list.

And if you really want to go whole-hog you can take 10 with a Painboy and Blasta. But I really think you are asking to get smoked by a Russ template at that point.

Big choppas suck.

When discussing about nobz,if you did not consider the value of Klaws and combi-weapons,the conclusion would not make sense at all.

I disagree. The Big Choppas are worth their points. Klaws are expensive if equally worthwhile while the Snazzguns are superior to combi-weapons.

Klaw can ignore any armor saves.

Choppa cannot ignore every armor save,even a 6+.

Can you ignore the difference between them?

you can when you are paying an extra 20 points each for the Klaws.

I gotta save from playing orks for more than 10 years.. nobs with klaws coming out of everywhere wins games.

the only ones I'd consider giving uge choppas to are the warboss so he's str 8 (fail a save and you die most of the time) or a single nob in a nob squad just so he has differing wargear

in every other situation the klaw is a better pick

NaZ

2 Nobz with 2 Big Choppas is 60 points, 1 Nob with 1 Klaw is 50 points. With 'Eavy Armour. You don't think that comes out about even?

Not that half a squad of Power Klaws isn't going to rip open Vehicles, Dreads etc.

Nob fight in a unit,and for the unit.

Listing only the points of a model prove nothing.

If you love flash gitz,just take them.No person can prohibit you to do that.

You would feel happy.And your opponents will love you,too.

Power klaws should be taken (basically always) on nobz in mobz. A mob of nobz does not need to take exclusively power klaws, but should take some to give them a punch. My biker nobz (of 6, including painboy) all have PKs, but I think if I added any more, then I would give them big choppas, and maybe 1 or 2 of the current should be big choppas, and then maybe add a PK for every 2 nobz.

For the shoota boyz vs. Flash Gits, I would like shoota boyz over Flash Gits, as they
a) are more reliable
b) have more (lower strength) attacks, averaging out the dice
c) fit better with my army: shootas need bolters to kill them, Flash Gits draw the anti-tank firepower, which I am trying to make the enemy waste with my hoard. If I was trying to overwhelm the enemy's anti-tank, I would probably not have any extra Heavy Support slots, as I would be taking kans or battlewaggons.