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In the Space Marine Codex, under the listing for Tac squads, it says:
Dedicated Transport:
May select a Rhino or a Razorback. If the squad numbers ten models, may take a Drop Pod (see page 135 for points cost).

Does this mean that I can give a Tac squad a Drop Pod AND a Razorback?

Sadly you noticed, I think it does.

I dont think it does. What I do think is that it was poorly written by GW.

What they mean is that you can select the Rhino/razorback for any sized squad.... and if your squad is over a certain size you have the option to use a Drop pod instead.

Here we have another example of people trying to abuse something that isnt their because of "poor wording".

Burning Star IV wrote:In the Space Marine Codex, under the listing for Tac squads, it says:
Dedicated Transport:
May select a Rhino or a Razorback. If the squad numbers ten models, may take a Drop Pod (see page 135 for points cost).

Does this mean that I can give a Tac squad a Drop Pod AND a Razorback?

Page 67 of the Main Rulebook...a unit may buy a vehicle etc etc. Singular usage there. Check the dedicated transport entry box.

im guessing no, since the whole idea for a dedicated transport is for sole use for that unit only, and the unit can only use 1 transport.

just going on a general idea here, may be wrong though.

think you can only bye one but razer back you can bye for a 10 man squad now with the spit up role on half in the razerback the outer on foot

Tac squad = RAW = NO
The whole Tac squad is divided AFTER leaving the droppod.
Your dedicated transport can't be placed elsewhere until your transported Tacs arrive by DS.

I mean if you only take the razerback.

juist making my self clear

So far no actual RAW. We all know the RAI. That means nothing in this forum. What's the RAW say? Right.

Does RAW specifically state you cannot place a dedicated transport without it's unit? (not at home with book) If it doesn't, you could deploy the rhino/razor empty for someone else and then drop the squad by pod.

Smashotron: Theres no RAW That explicitly states that as far as I know, and I doubt there's any. If there was something stipulating needing to deploy a whole force organisation chart at once or something similar then it would prohibit HQs from taking transports for fear of rolling up a Dawn of War mission.

I think RAW in this case is that you could take both the razorback and the drop pod and I'm not sure but looking at the combat squad rules I think you could even get away with putting 5 marines in the pod and 5 in the razorback.

RAW transports: rulebook page 66.

"one unit cannot be distributed between transports."

Edit: difference between english and german rulebook:

German RAW transports : rulebook page 67."a dedicated transport Must be placed with the unit its bought with."

Better?

Maybe you can buy razorback+droppod.

How to place them?

1hadhq wrote:RAW transports : rulebook page 67.

"a dedicated transport Must be placed with the unit its bought with."

This is not a quote from the rulebook.
You never have to deploy dedicated transport with the unit they are bought with if they are not embarked in it at deployment.

page 67

The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters).

page 92 (deployment)

MULTIPLE UNIT CHOICES
Note that occasionally the Codexes allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single force organisation slot (like dedicated transports, etc.). Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as separate units in all respects.

As far as I can see RAW it's very possible for a Tactical squad to take both a rhino or razorback and a drop pod and then deploy in neither of them. We all know what's intended.

Webbe wrote:

1hadhq wrote:RAW transports : rulebook page 67.

"a dedicated transport Must be placed with the unit its bought with."

This is not a quote from the rulebook.
You never have to deploy dedicated transport with the unit they are bought with if they are not embarked in it at deployment.

He said in his post that he was showing the difference between the german and english rulebook....
so, yes- It's not in the english version...

Page 67
"Sometimes a unit entry in a codex will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected with the unit." italics mine.

This makes it clear that you can only buy 1 vehicle per unit.

KeithGatchalian wrote: Page 67
"Sometimes a unit entry in a codex will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected with the unit." italics mine.

This makes it clear that you can only buy 1 vehicle per unit.

In your opinion.

Codex trumps rulebook is the rule in GW games.

So guess which rule actually applies?

Correct, razorback or rhino + drop pod.

Iboshi2 wrote:He said in his post that he was showing the difference between the german and english rulebook....
so, yes- It's not in the english version...

He edited his post after I posted mine...

i would say you can because there is no or before the buy a drop pod part, although why would you as they just give you extra kill points.

Because a drop pod or razorback really requires at least a S6 weapon to do much do them, and that's something not shooting at your marines.

Sure, they can go for the "easy" kill point, but everything else is still shooting up your guys. It's not that they have to give up shots, it's WHAT they have to give up. A squad of dire avengers can't just give it a passing wave and blow it apart, they'll need their fire dragons or warp spiders to cause it any grief.

exactly. fire warriors can't be bothered to shoot at it, and your opponent will then waste a hammerhead or suit shot to knock it (them) out.

I reread the entry in the marine codex. And then I reread the entry again. How the heck you can interprete the sentence as allow to take both shows a lack of basic English.

There are two sentences. You cannot take each sentence independantly. the sentence that says that you may take a droppod is just another option - i.e rhino, razorback or droppod. The reason the droppod is separate is it is separate and not with the rhino or razorback sentence is that there is a restriction in the number of models.

You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

I am just returning to 40k having not liked v4. The more time I spend on Dakka the more I am leaning to stopping playing again as I remember part of the reason why I stopped playing. I just hate watching this as people bend, stretch and purposely use bad grammar and poor logic to extract an advantage where there is none. I know I know I am going to face some-one like this across a table.

fullheadofhair wrote:You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

Before you jump on in, make sure you quote the rule properly. The rule states if the squad numbers 10 models, not 10 or less. You are quick to site bad grammar and reading comp, but you also are at fault of these items. You are correct it is comprised of two sentences, but there is no "if no Rhino or Razorback is tanken, then" statement, thus allowing both to be true.

InquisitorFabius wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

Before you jump on in, make sure you quote the rule properly. The rule states if the squad numbers 10 models, not 10 or less. You are quick to site bad grammar and reading comp, but you also are at fault of these items. You are correct it is comprised of two sentences, but there is no "if no Rhino or Razorback is tanken, then" statement, thus allowing both to be true.

It was from memory. Being only average I am not blessed with a photgraphic memory or a copy of the new codex and anyway the 10 or less doesn't relate to the point you are making.

There doesn't need to be a no "if no" by combining the rule book and simple english comprehension listing three options - the point I was making is the reason the DP is separate is that there is a qualifier with it i.e an additional rule.

I hope it doesn't say just 10 models or you wil never be able to take a HQ character in a drop pod with a tac squad, i.e to have a drop pod must have 10 members therefore 9 doesn't get one. therefore unless a DP takes 11 models a HQ or character cannot attach to a tac squad and DP in.

fullheadofhair wrote:

InquisitorFabius wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

Before you jump on in, make sure you quote the rule properly. The rule states if the squad numbers 10 models, not 10 or less. You are quick to site bad grammar and reading comp, but you also are at fault of these items. You are correct it is comprised of two sentences, but there is no "if no Rhino or Razorback is tanken, then" statement, thus allowing both to be true.

It was from memory. Being only average I am not blessed with a photgraphic memory or a copy of the new codex and anyway the 10 or less doesn't relate to the point you are making.

There doesn't need to be a no "if no" by combining the rule book and simple english comprehension when reading the new codex. It is just listing three options - the point I was making is the reason the DP is separate is that there is a qualifier with it i.e an additional rule -not an additional option to be taken with the first two.

I hope it doesn't say just 10 models or you wil never be able to take a HQ character in a drop pod with a tac squad, i.e to have a drop pod must have 10 members therefore 9 doesn't get one. therefore unless a DP takes 11 models a HQ or character cannot attach to a tac squad and DP in.

fullheadofhair wrote:

InquisitorFabius wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

Before you jump on in, make sure you quote the rule properly. The rule states if the squad numbers 10 models, not 10 or less. You are quick to site bad grammar and reading comp, but you also are at fault of these items. You are correct it is comprised of two sentences, but there is no "if no Rhino or Razorback is tanken, then" statement, thus allowing both to be true.

It was from memory. Being only average I am not blessed with a photgraphic memory or a copy of the new codex and anyway the 10 or less doesn't relate to the point you are making.

There doesn't need to be a no "if no" by combining the rule book and simple english comprehension listing three options - the point I was making is the reason the DP is separate is that there is a qualifier with it i.e an additional rule.

I hope it doesn't say just 10 models or you wil never be able to take a HQ character in a drop pod with a tac squad, i.e to have a drop pod must have 10 members therefore 9 doesn't get one. therefore unless a DP takes 11 models a HQ or character cannot attach to a tac squad and DP in.

You should check the rule before you jump in anyways. If you don't know the rule, you don't know what you're talking about.

There is nothing prohibiting the requisition of both, but there is something saying that you can take each one. It is permitted, so unless there is a clause somewhere (which there isn't), you can take both.

As for your HQ statement, that is not true. The rule states that if the SQUAD numbers 10 models, it may take a DP. Independent characters can join squads in DPs (which have a 12-model capacity, mind you), because of the rules described for ICs and Dedicated Transports.

fullheadofhair wrote:There doesn't need to be a no "if no" by combining the rule book and simple english comprehension listing three options -

No, sorry... it's a seperate statement, and so it does need a qualifier if it's going to be included as a part of the first sentence.

The first sentence gives two options: rhino or razorback.
The second gives another unrelated option: Drop pod if 10 models.

Nothing in the rule quoted makes the second sentence dependant on the first in any way whatsoever. Without something linking it to the first sentence (an 'if neither of these are taken' or simply an 'instead') the sole qualifier for taking a Drop Pod is that the unit has 10 models.

Options are not conditional of previously listed different options unless something actually links them together.

So unless there's something else in the codex that limits units to taking a single transport vehicle, it's legal. I wouldn't recommend actually trying it... but the rules allow it.

Bah! Quote button where the edit button should be :(

Burning Star IV wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

InquisitorFabius wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:You can take 10+ with a rhino or razorback. you can only take a droppod if you have 10 or less.

Before you jump on in, make sure you quote the rule properly. The rule states if the squad numbers 10 models, not 10 or less. You are quick to site bad grammar and reading comp, but you also are at fault of these items. You are correct it is comprised of two sentences, but there is no "if no Rhino or Razorback is tanken, then" statement, thus allowing both to be true.

It was from memory. Being only average I am not blessed with a photgraphic memory or a copy of the new codex and anyway the 10 or less doesn't relate to the point you are making.

There doesn't need to be a no "if no" by combining the rule book and simple english comprehension listing three options - the point I was making is the reason the DP is separate is that there is a qualifier with it i.e an additional rule.

I hope it doesn't say just 10 models or you wil never be able to take a HQ character in a drop pod with a tac squad, i.e to have a drop pod must have 10 members therefore 9 doesn't get one. therefore unless a DP takes 11 models a HQ or character cannot attach to a tac squad and DP in.

You should check the rule before you jump in anyways. If you don't know the rule, you don't know what you're talking about.

There is nothing prohibiting the requisition of both, but there is something saying that you can take each one. It is permitted, so unless there is a clause somewhere (which there isn't), you can take both.

As for your HQ statement, that is not true. The rule states that if the SQUAD numbers 10 models, it may take a DP. Independent characters can join squads in DPs (which have a 12-model capacity, mind you), because of the rules described for ICs and Dedicated Transports.

Oh for godsakes, will someone please frikking read. I went to my local GW last night. I read the rule in the frikking codex. I couldn't remember if the entry said 10 men or less.

Thank you for clarify the number of models in a DP - that I forgotten about.

However,

Point one: you are just asserting that it isn't prohibted. We differ on English. I think you cannot read. You think I am dumb - neither of us are going to agree until it is FAQ'ed.

Point 2. You cannot have it both ways. If it says 10 models(or whatever)/ squad can only take a DP then it is relating to the tac-squad as it is the entry for the tac squad. Untlike v4 of the SM codex, v5 details the DP carrying requirements in the tac squad entry. therefore the squad numbers refers to the tac squad itself.

From the main rules book "alternatively, an IC may beging the game already with a unit, by being deployed in coherency with them" pg 48. Deployed in coherency to me does not mean getting into a drop-pod before arriving. He has to be deployed as his own unit, in coherency to another unit (i.e other unit has to have been deployed first - note first, not simultanouesly, so that the first part of of pg 48 joining a unit can apply. So no, I don't think an IC can join a tac squad in a DP.

wasn't there the same argument in v4?

fullheadofhair wrote:wasn't there the same argument in v4?

There was indeed.

The difference was that in 4th Edition, the Reserves rules didn't allow ICs to join Units in Reserve.
In 5th edition, they do.

insaniak wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:wasn't there the same argument in v4?

There was indeed.

The difference was that in 4th Edition, the Reserves rules didn't allow ICs to join Units in Reserve.
In 5th edition, they do.

ah yes, paid 94, player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and or IC. Thanks for the clarification does suggest that. However, pg 48 makes no mention that IC's can join squads in reserves - it says IC's can only join a squad by either moving into coherency or by being deployed in coherency of another squad, which suggests that they cannot be deployed simultanuously.

On what page does it say an IC can join a unit in reserves?

EDITED: Does pg 94 actually qualify as saying that an IC can join a unit in reserves. The reason I am asking is this argument has already happened (I wasn't part of it).

On a side note it will be nice to own the dang codex instead of relying on memory when reading it in the store. any ideas when it is coming out?

However, I still disagree with the reading of the OP's main point. As I have said, we aren't going to agree until it is FAQ'ed, and I hope no-one I play is going to put an army list that has this and cotains the salamander special character + witch-hunter allies!!