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Greetings Everybody!

I found this place a few days ago and have decided to join up and participate directly as opposed to skulking in the background like your resident Spook is want to do, so greetings to you all. I know there's an introduction thread elsewhere I can use but I'll do it here for now - 40k wise, I've been playings ince the end of 2nd Edition, but didn't play much in the last edition, absolutely hating the whole KiddyK aspect 40k had started to turn into. However, this edition has made many changes that we agree to much more and quite like it regardless of the mixed (though largely positive) views on this the 5th Ed. of the game. I play 'Nids, Vanilla Space Marines (White Consuls) and currently working on this Fabius Bile Theme force, but have subbed most armies at some point or another with varying levels of success depending on the force. Anyways, this is the second thread on the second forum I posted this thread up on...that makes a loose kind of sense, anyways before reading this and just jumping into this directly:

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING THREAD:

http://www.golden-throne.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10937

It details the progress so far and why I am getting the force and how it is starting at 500pts with Bile taken additionally for free with the campaign we are starting up with our new armies. I am quite happy with the Startring force and have already started converting up Obliterators from the Assault on Black Reach Terminators, witha view to potentially turn one of those shiny new Dreads into a Chaos Dread as well. So to summarise the above, I am after Fabius's core and best Praetorians so to speak, his most successful experiments and above all a themed and competitive army. So i'd like suggestions on how to take the list from 500 pts at: 1 HQ = Fabius Bile (Points Not Included but 160pts in overall force); Heavy Support - 1 Obliterator = 75pts; Heavy Support - 1 Obliterator = 75pts; Troops - 5 x Enhanced Warriors incl. Flamer = 95pts; Troops - 5 x Plague Marines incl. 2 Flamers = 125pts; Elite - 5 Chosen incl. 1 Autocannon, 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Flamer = 130pts; Total = 500pts. I'd like jumps to 750, 1,000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000, 2250, and 2500, though jumps of 500pts are probably better and probably the way we'll head. I've noticed a good few regular contributors here and whilst Land Raider Spam is great, I'm not a massive proponent for it in this force and would potentially not even take one. As a final note I am used to a minimum of 60 models in a 1,500pt force, this includes marines of all types, so from a collecting point of view this army is somewhat of a new approach as it promises to be quite small. My force at 500pts is lacking manuvreability but there isn't a whole bunch you can do at that level.

Cheers all, and have a good evening,

Auretious Taak.

Fabius can only enhance Chaos spacemarine SQUADs.

Not Chaos spacemarine UNITs.

Not competitive at all.Even with the +1s bonus,they still cannot do better than plague marines or zerkers in close combat.

I'm sure that by CSM squads, it means any CSM unit that is a squad, so any troops choice, Oblits, Havocs, Termies, whatever.

"You are sure" prove nothing.

Unless GW declare the definition of the phrase "Chaos space marines squad",it cannot refer to something other than chaos space marines squad,which has the exactly same name,and is listed in the troop section of the codex.

tokugawa wrote:Fabius can only enhance Chaos spacemarine SQUADs.

Not Chaos spacemarine UNITs.

Not competitive at all.Even with the +1s bonus,they still cannot do better than plague marines or zerkers in close combat.

Your response doesn't read anything in the thread I linked you to as I requested. I know full well that Fabius can only modify the basic Troops units of Chaos Space Marines in the Troops sections, nothing witha mark no Chosen, Havocs Oblits nothing just the Chaos Space Marines. Have a look at my unit that is enhanced in the 500pt example, it is vanilla marines wnhanced, they cost 18 pts, have +1 strength so are strength 5 and are fearless. Give them an icon of Slaanesh for 20 points in a unit of 10 that's an average of 20 points a model with 2 base strength 5 I5 attacks. They come in at better then Slaaneshi Noise marines for by an entire point of strength. Noise Marines only come into their own when you start upgrading their weapons costing 5 points more each. Plague Marines have T5 and Feel No Pain and yes Plague marines are pretty damned resilient, but we are using the count as rule in some cases like the Plague Marines because an Icon won't give me feel no pain now will it? To Berserkers, yeah with an icon of Khorne I lose out on 1 pt of WS and don't have the initiative of 5 on the attack but I'm strength 5 ALWAYS, and sometimes strength 6. Throw in the fact the normal marines can have a variety of heavy and special weapons, and their flexibility outstrips the singleminded close with the enemy nature of the Khorne Berserkers easily.

Some advice for you tokugawa, you made a statement and claimed the army is a load of crap without looking through everything posted and examining all the options fully in the list, there is a massive amount of other information already discussed elsewhwere as already stated in my opening post. I brought the thread here for more views and ideas as there are only maybe 2 dozen people on the Golden Throne that post regularly as opposed to the massive amounts here. As a basic unit, for 18 points, point for point Fabius's creations are heads and shoulders above most other units in the Troops section especially when you look at ALL their options and weigh them up point for point. They may not be as good as berserkers on the charge but they are always strength 5 and in a fight against other marines where they charge or against orks et al I always will wound on 3's, the berserkers are wounding on 4's most of the time. The only advantage Pague marines have is the ability to get feel no pain which the Enhanced warriors can't but this is cancelled by the fact that they are initiative 3 and the Enhanced warriors retain their initiative of 4 with an icon of nurgle yet still save 2pts, so they are better at dishing out the damage on an enemy first and again have the optioon for a heavy weapon in their unit whereas the Plague Marines don't. If youc all this uncompetitive and a full of crap concept thens eriously wander off and badger some little grot who cares.

Read the linked thread as I requested people, it will make everything alot nicer and it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Auretious Taak.

I'll read that if you format it, otherwise no.

Tacobake wrote:I'll read that if you format it, otherwise no.

What do you mean by formatting it exactly? What would need to be done?

Auretious Taak.

more than you have.

The only thing I would suggest is giving them an Icon to help in close combat. IoN or IoS. Probably Nurgle. They do not compete with the marked squads on their own, but they are still Fearless and can benefit from an Icon, same as Possessed.

Auretious Taak wrote:

tokugawa wrote:Fabius can only enhance Chaos spacemarine SQUADs.

Not Chaos spacemarine UNITs.

Not competitive at all.Even with the +1s bonus,they still cannot do better than plague marines or zerkers in close combat.

Some advice for you tokugawa, you made a statement and claimed the army is a load of crap without looking through everything posted and examining all the options fully in the list, there is a massive amount of other information already discussed elsewhwere as already stated in my opening post. I brought the thread here for more views and ideas as there are only maybe 2 dozen people on the Golden Throne that post regularly as opposed to the massive amounts here. As a basic unit, for 18 points, point for point Fabius's creations are heads and shoulders above most other units in the Troops section especially when you look at ALL their options and weigh them up point for point. They may not be as good as berserkers on the charge but they are always strength 5 and in a fight against other marines where they charge or against orks et al I always will wound on 3's, the berserkers are wounding on 4's most of the time. The only advantage Pague marines have is the ability to get feel no pain which the Enhanced warriors can't but this is cancelled by the fact that they are initiative 3 and the Enhanced warriors retain their initiative of 4 with an icon of nurgle yet still save 2pts, so they are better at dishing out the damage on an enemy first and again have the optioon for a heavy weapon in their unit whereas the Plague Marines don't. If youc all this uncompetitive and a full of crap concept thens eriously wander off and badger some little grot who cares.

Read the linked thread as I requested people, it will make everything alot nicer and it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Auretious Taak.

You cannot realize the concept of holding objectives.

FNP is helpful to holding objectives.Blight grenades,even more useful.

When S5 and I4 do rather little to holding objectives.

Okay read the notes.

1. willing to experiment on anything...
2. not always successful

Successful
For competitive, death guard would be the best... then you have the FnP and good troops in 5th edition. You could model things like
drug injectors to represent the feel no pain. Bulky or potentially cyborg tech to represent the base toughness.

As far as the modified units that you actually use his power a squad with mark of nurgle or slaanesh. Max it out and the icon is really not costing you much. (20 marines with 50 pt icon = 2.5 additional points) This could serve as the "skirmish line" for the stable successful troopers. Give Fabius and those "elite" followers a 4+ cover save as the work their way to the objectives/enemy. T5 should get you there.

Raptors = Especially if you use possessed. Nab the winged models and go for it. I am sure he would want to try "enhancing" them with wings.

Bikers = Slaanesh or Nurgle... how about some hefty conversions and have them melded into the bike... lose the lower bodies and just have them embedded in the bike chassis.

Obliterators = Again looks like melded marines

Terminators = Same as Obliterators

Unsure:
Possessed Marines - pricey and inconsistent due to the die roll but for flavor you could have something really nice.

Failures:

Dreadnoughts = semi-crazed overloaded on fabius drugs...

Chaos Spawn = Again a big oops but he finds a place for them.

If you want the random experiment that went wrong(well)... skip the demon prince and go with a greater daemon... (In mid battle the drugs take effect and one of your random aspiring champions explodes into a monstrosity.)

I do like the idea of him being a mercenary and being in the employ of someone... I would use this HQ and some choices to cover any weaknesses in Fabius-themed troops. My suggestion would be a sorcerer of some type. Tzeentch, nurgle, slaanesh... different reasons to take any one of them. If you really want to go for the gusto how about the other named character -Ahriman the outcast Thousand Sons sorcerer. Would explain why he needs Fabius to build up a force. Give Ahriman a squad of loyal thousand sons (immune to your evil experiments seeing they are just magically sealed suits now.) As sorcerers are described, they are a bit crazy so why not hire the mad doctor to aid him in his demented scheme?

Sounds like you are going to work it up from 500 pts so I would start with a couple generic CSM units and go from there... You get a handle of Fabius in action and then start adding the Death Guard (stable experiments) and the failures. Maybe start with 1 or 2 chaos spawn... probably won't be spectacular but a neat way to eat up 40 to 80 points in your themed army. Depending on your point totals, you could vary the amount of failures from battle to battle... Hmmm 2000 points, 10 chaos spawn intent on killing anything Fabius send them at... could be fun.

Hi Auretious Taak,

I find the Dakka boards useful for powergaming tips. The regulars here really seem to know thier stuff, but seem a little cool towards those they don't know or respect... I have noticed that the Bolter and Chainsword seems to be a lot friendlier.


I see one problem with your small squads, and that is "Created a Monster" is going to reduce your squad by one each turn. Preferably, you would want something like a Land Raider to transport such a powerful squad into combat quickly. I would use the LR to act as a mobile bunker, reinforcing combats or withdrawing troops as needed. But you don't want them...

Given that, I guess that I would start with Fabius and a couple full sized squads w/meltas and Rhino transport. I think the Slaanish Icon would be a great addition.

Fabius
9 Enhanced CSM, 1 melta, Slannish, Rhino w/dozer- 232pts
10 Enhanced CSM, 2 meltas, Slannish, Rhino w/combi plasma- 265pts


Warprat

I too run a Fabius force, using all the elements of the Codex that really don't work or are otherwise too random. Fun as heck to play. The core of it is usually 2 full squads of enhanced marines, meltas, champ with power weapon, melta bombs, and a combi weapon, stuck in rhinos, and then about 8 Possessed in a Rhino for Fabius Bile to ride with. A few squads of lesser daemons are good for boosting Troops choices. I'll also throw in a Dreadnought, and even some Spawn, and usually my Defiler as well. Will it win? Not likely. But it's themed and fun!

14 is a good sized squad, or 10 if you like Rhinos.