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I'v been thinking a bit about the following list, but need a few pointers:

HQ
Farseer: Runes of Warding, Guide, Doom, Spirit Stones

Troops
3 x 10 Guardians with a Bright Lance and a Warlock with conceal

Elites
3 x 10 Striking Scorpion with a Claw Exarch. Mounted in wave serpents with Star Engines, Spirit Stones and Scatter lasers

Heavy Support
3 Naked Prisms



Sounds possible? Its mainly the Troops and HS that I am wondering about. Don't really like any eldar troops, so I just opted for maximum heavy weapons since I know I will be facing some armies with large amounts of transports or tanks. Although Wraithguard might be worth considering. For the HS I am thinking of throwing in some War Walkers instead of one Prism, since the amount of tanks and transports should keep enemy heavy weaponry occupied elsewhere. Or some Reapers, but since my troops might be slowly advancing (to take objectives) they might be stranded without support. the list is about 1930p now, so I have some room to change things about.

Gakk, those guardians are horrible. they should be in cover, making conceal unneccesary, and that 1 shot/turn from the lance is only going to hit half the time, meaning they do precisely squat for half the game. drop 2 units, take 10 avengers+serpent, drop the 3rd unit, take another troop choice. maybe bikers.

If you want to be nasty, drop the seer, use spare point to take 2 near naked autarchs (avenger catapult +/- power weapon) and stick them with the troops in serpents. Give the exarchs infiltrate.

Keep everything in reserve.

Now you have 3 prisms, avengers and another troop choice all coming onto the board turn 2 on a 2+. Oh, and 30 outflanking scorpions in serpents also on a 2+.

Prisms pop transports, scorpions eat all. the serious killing wont begin till turn three, but by then, your opponent has had a turn of wasted shooting (2, if you go second) and you can deploy wherever the hell you like. only thing is, its lacking in troops, so youre relying on taking out your opponents troops. keep the avengers in the serpent unless theres an emergency, 3 prisms and 3 scatter serpents should be a decent amount of anti infantry.

Yeah, I know the guardians are crap, I can just never figure out what to take instead

But the plan you outlined won't work, can't outflank with the Scorpions if an Autarch is with them, infiltrate will not transfer to him and he will prevent them from using it.

I am thinking of going all out Mech. Perhaps removing the normal guardians and getting a two units of Storm Guardians with fusion guns in Serpents. They ride around for most of the game, taking objectives and popping out to wreck tanks or to mop up smaller artillery/heavy weapon units. While the Scorpions handle the dangerous stuff.

if you want an anvil unit take wraithguard nothing dies more slowly than concealed and fortuned wraithguard. if you must take guardians as anvil units they need to be in big squads with embolden to stop them running away as soon as something goes Boo at them.

for hammer units, scorpions are ok, but harlies are better, especially with hit and run. at the moment you army seems to have a bit of hammer and not much anvil.

in my hammer and anvil eldar i find that guardians are usually very effective. usually even my mvps, although i run mine a bit differently.

i usually use 3 10 man squads with scatter lasers, park them in cover and just take 12 str 6 shots per turn. it might not sound impressive, until you realize that over the course of a game they usually end up putting out 60-70 scatter laser shots. i don't give them warlocks, i figure 3 warlocks will cost about 130 pts, i use the saved points from the warlocks to bring an avatar to anchor them. it works out very well, i find that most people either ignore them and i use the scatter laser to blow up transports and/or light skimmers. Or people think they are going to be easy kp's and attack them, not realizing how much damage 30 fearless guardians and an avatar will inflict. Plus then the hammer (fire dragons, banshees and dire avengers all mounted) can bail them out which i found is almost never necessary. the key to guardians is to keep them all together and use them as long range fire support. then, if/when they are approached by a unit or two, forgo shooting with them so you can fleet. Use the fleet of foot set up shooting the advancing unit with shr. catapults next turn. 54 shr. cat shots and 12 scatter laser shots are nothing to scoff at. especially if you can doom the said unit. if anyone is still alive you can assault them with 30 guardians and an avatar, once again preferably doomed.

it sounds really complicated, but isn't, after some trial and error you should be able to consistently pull this off.
i wasn't a believer, i thought it was a one trick pony, i thought there were too many weaknesses with said tactic. but after trying it i found it to be effective.

honestly i don't think you can make a better anvil then 30-40 guardians, an avatar and a farseer/eldrad.

just remember that when a unit gets close you have to focus all three guardians on that one squad.

also, this army won't play it self, if you aren't good at analyzing all your options then this isn't for you. you also have to know how much your anvil can handle and position your hammer units accordingly. you have to be good at "math hammer" on the fly, so you know what resources to allocate and where to allocate them. it's a tricky army to use effectively, but once you get past the growing pains you will find it competitive, consistent and most importantly rewarding to play with.

just for comparative purposes, my list looks something like this:

eldrad
avatar

10 guardians w/scatter laser
10 guardians w/scatter laser
10 guardians w/scatter laser

9 dire avengers
1 exarch w/extra shr. catatpult and bladestorm
1 wave serpent, with tl scatter laser, shr cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines.

10 howling banshee's
1 wave serpent, with tl scatter laser, shr cannon, spirit stones, vectored engines.

10 Fire dragons
1 wave serpent, with tl scatter laser, spirit stones, vectored engines.

fire prism w/holofields, spirit stones
fire prism w/holofields, spirit stones
fire prism w/holofields, spirit stones

should be 1997 pts.

i have been known to change to load out on the serpents, as well as changing the HS. sometimes i use a wraithlord, or warwalkers, or falcons. i do not however change my HQ, troops, or elites. just the serpents they are in.

A unit of Wraithguard is tempting, but expensive. I think I liked the idea of Scatter Laser Guardians better. It seriously reduces my anti-tank ability however, but I should still do ok against transports. Or I change some of the weapons on the Serpents, but I doubt thats well spent points.

As for the Hammer itself, I am not so fond of harlies. First of all they are clowns... amd secondly scorpions are enough to take on most units. They don't really need to be better.

Seer Council on jetbikes, or even on foot is a hell of a hammer.

Light, I said put the 'tarchs with the troop choice avengers, not the scorps.

Storm guardians are a lot more viable now, although sketchy at anti tank - 2 BS3 melta shots? Maybe a singing spear? you arent going to do much, except to the lightest transports, but then thats what your scatterlasers on other stuff are for. if you want storms, go with 2x flamer+warlock with destructor, in a serpent. use serpents main gun(s) to hit the transport, flamer death the guys that fall out.

Lightbringer, you have a good start but the balance is a bit off. You need to make your anvil a bit more durable, and you've got a lot of hammer that you will be tempted to commit elsewhere (leaving the anvil high and dry). Dropping one of the Scorp units for more troops (I like Avengers with shimmershield to tarpit high-strength attackers) will balance things out pretty well. My only other criticism is that if you're going to pay anything over 100 points for a Farsee, you might as well go whole-hog and get Eldrad. He really is the best possible seer option, and more than worth the extra points. he's not only more powerful psychically, divination is a killer ability, and he's not that bad in CC.

Agreed that Stormies are best for flamer duty. Also remember that when trying to pop tanks to get at the squishy stuff inside, hatch blocking will help you make them exit by the door that your flamers are facing.

Finally, don't use Wraithguard as an anvil- they're too expensive and short-ranged.

Squall, that's a good list. How would you trim it down to 1750? Ditch the holos on the Prisms, 4 Dragons, most of the VE and shuricannons- what else?

i have always been interested in trying storm guardians, but doubt their effectiveness. i like the idea of them, especially with flamers jumping out of a serpent, but i feel that guardian defenders would be just as effective jumping out of a serpent, maybe even more. 22 shruiken catapult shots and 4 scatter laser shots for 95 pts are a hard deal to beat. unless you know you are going to be playing a lot of orks, nids or the like, i would just go with regular guardian defenders.

i have also thought about wraith guard, but since they are so expensive and slow, they won't do a whole lot. and since they have no range i think they would be very easy for opponents to ignore, i guess i find them ineffective, plus they are so expensive. Usually if wraithguard get into a fight it's on your opponents terms and honestly wraithguard die easily in close combat.

i like your original list, i just think it's needs a little more balance. Plus you NEED an avatar. honestly in a hammer and anvil list using guardians you need a avatar, it shouldn't even be debated.

by balance i mean versatility, 3 fp's are awesome but you need more anti-tank. in 4th you could have gotten away with what you have, but in 5th tanks are everywhere. plus i find that fp's aren't even all that GREAT at killing tanks, i find they are GOOD anti-tank and anti-infantry. when you need a tank dead you need fire dragons, mounted of course. melta type guns are more important in 5th ed than they have ever been.

scorps are good, but i think three squads are too many, you won't need three. i think most games you won't find uses for 3 squads. i prefer banshee's because nothing in the eldar codex replicates what they can do. they disallow feel no pain and wbb rolls. no units in the eldar codex can do it as efficiently as banshees. don't forget that apothecaries in the new marine codex grant NFP to the entire unit. the fact that they slice though termies and meqs make them a no-brainier. my only beef with scorps is that their abilites can be replicated with other units. scorps are good at killing mass number of lightly armored troops, this ability is replicated by fp's, dire avengers, guardians and wave serpents.

your list would have a hard time with fully mech armies and armies with lot's of 3+ saves. that's where the fire dragons and banshee's come in. against hordes you still have 3 fp's (which rape hordes, no other way to describe it), a lot of long range fire from serpents and guardians and you should also have a unit of mounted dire avengers. once again scorps aren't bad, they just don't offer you anything you didn't already have or need.

1750 huh?

i'll have to think about it and get back to you guys.

Savnock, you are absolutely right about the hammer.

this army wins by attrition, it plays defensively. it's true that the hammer units are more concerned about offensive than defensive capabilities, but they shouldn't be used aggressively. keep the hammer units back, use them as counter attack ONLY when your opponent makes a mistake or commits to attacking your anvil. the hammer units are supporting units, the bulk of your work is done by the anvil.

I've used Storm Guardians with a Warlock and Destructor to great success. It doesn't really matter if the thing you're shooting at has a 3+ or a 6+ save. The point of the flamers is to simply make them take armor saves. Even Marines making that many saves will lose a few. Plus, with that extra attack in close combat I found they could hold up just a little better. Either that or my opponent was rolling terribly.

See orange for comments on their posts. You need Holo Fields on the prisms, non-dieing prisms are much better then ones they get popped as quickly as Av13 can be. I also want to point out up front that Infiltrate cannot be carried over to transports, even dedicated ones, so anything you want to use that to outflank with, cannot be done in a transport. I also like fortune as a power, but to each his own. Cheapo Autarch maybe?

Xenith wrote:Gakk, those guardians are horrible. they should be in cover, making conceal unneccesary, and that 1 shot/turn from the lance is only going to hit half the time, meaning they do precisely squat for half the game. drop 2 units, take 10 avengers+serpent, drop the 3rd unit, take another troop choice. maybe bikers.

Maybe, though two squads over three isn't that good of a deal. He needs to get holo fields on the Prisms, maybe take points from here? Or the scorps.

If you want to be nasty, drop the seer, use spare point to take 2 near naked autarchs (avenger catapult +/- power weapon) and stick them with the troops in serpents. Give the exarchs infiltrate.

Keep everything in reserve.

Now you have 3 prisms, avengers and another troop choice all coming onto the board turn 2 on a 2+. Oh, and 30 outflanking scorpions in serpents also on a 2+.

In illegal land, sure. Infiltrate does NOT transfer over to transports of any kind. They lose it once you put them in the Serpents. No Outflanking Serpents of death for you, sorry.

Prisms pop transports, scorpions eat all. the serious killing wont begin till turn three, but by then, your opponent has had a turn of wasted shooting (2, if you go second) and you can deploy wherever the hell you like. only thing is, its lacking in troops, so youre relying on taking out your opponents troops. keep the avengers in the serpent unless theres an emergency, 3 prisms and 3 scatter serpents should be a decent amount of anti infantry.

I would keep safe whatever other troop squad exists, a turn of avenger shooting is just too good to waste like that.

Lightbringer wrote:A unit of Wraithguard is tempting, but expensive. I think I liked the idea of Scatter Laser Guardians better. It seriously reduces my anti-tank ability however, but I should still do ok against transports. Or I change some of the weapons on the Serpents, but I doubt thats well spent points.

Just kill major Anti Inf tanks, as AT tanks can either shoot Holo Fielded Prism's or Serpents, which hopefully have already deployed their guys thus making them largely annoyance units anyway.

As for the Hammer itself, I am not so fond of harlies. First of all they are clowns... amd secondly scorpions are enough to take on most units. They don't really need to be better.

I don't favor harlies either. Scrops get the same attacks on the charge, one less when charged, and do it for cheaper, and with a better save against normal troops. Banshees can be argued for, but it's either those or Scorps, not Harlies.

Savnock wrote:Lightbringer, you have a good start but the balance is a bit off. You need to make your anvil a bit more durable, and you've got a lot of hammer that you will be tempted to commit elsewhere (leaving the anvil high and dry). Dropping one of the Scorp units for more troops (I like Avengers with shimmershield to tarpit high-strength attackers) will balance things out pretty well. My only other criticism is that if you're going to pay anything over 100 points for a Farsee, you might as well go whole-hog and get Eldrad. He really is the best possible seer option, and more than worth the extra points. he's not only more powerful psychically, divination is a killer ability, and he's not that bad in CC.

He's not good in any respect whatsoever(In combat, I mean, he is the best psychic user in the game). A few terminators can eat him and most of his squad alive. He's a unit you kind of want to protect.

Agreed that Stormies are best for flamer duty. Also remember that when trying to pop tanks to get at the squishy stuff inside, hatch blocking will help you make them exit by the door that your flamers are facing.

Finally, don't use Wraithguard as an anvil- they're too expensive and short-ranged.

I agree.

Squall, that's a good list. How would you trim it down to 1750? Ditch the holos on the Prisms, 4 Dragons, most of the VE and shuricannons- what else?

Don't ditch Prism Holos, they are far to awesome.

squall8187 wrote:i have always been interested in trying storm guardians, but doubt their effectiveness. i like the idea of them, especially with flamers jumping out of a serpent, but i feel that guardian defenders would be just as effective jumping out of a serpent, maybe even more. 22 shruiken catapult shots and 4 scatter laser shots for 95 pts are a hard deal to beat. unless you know you are going to be playing a lot of orks, nids or the like, i would just go with regular guardian defenders.

i have also thought about wraith guard, but since they are so expensive and slow, they won't do a whole lot. and since they have no range i think they would be very easy for opponents to ignore, i guess i find them ineffective, plus they are so expensive. Usually if wraithguard get into a fight it's on your opponents terms and honestly wraithguard die easily in close combat.

i like your original list, i just think it's needs a little more balance. Plus you NEED an avatar. honestly in a hammer and anvil list using guardians you need a avatar, it shouldn't even be debated.

by balance i mean versatility, 3 fp's are awesome but you need more anti-tank. in 4th you could have gotten away with what you have, but in 5th tanks are everywhere. plus i find that fp's aren't even all that GREAT at killing tanks, i find they are GOOD anti-tank and anti-infantry. when you need a tank dead you need fire dragons, mounted of course. melta type guns are more important in 5th ed than they have ever been.

Depends on what you feel is a threat, I've found prism's do decently in an AT roll, just neutralize any major threat to your inf squads then it doesn't matter, their AT isn't that important against Holo'ed prism's or one shot transports.

scorps are good, but i think three squads are too many, you won't need three. i think most games you won't find uses for 3 squads. i prefer banshee's because nothing in the eldar codex replicates what they can do. they disallow feel no pain and wbb rolls. no units in the eldar codex can do it as efficiently as banshees. don't forget that apothecaries in the new marine codex grant NFP to the entire unit. the fact that they slice though termies and meqs make them a no-brainier. my only beef with scorps is that their abilites can be replicated with other units. scorps are good at killing mass number of lightly armored troops, this ability is replicated by fp's, dire avengers, guardians and wave serpents.

3 may be overkill. Dragons wouldn't be a bad idea, or Banshees to deal with elite inf types.

your list would have a hard time with fully mech armies and armies with lot's of 3+ saves. that's where the fire dragons and banshee's come in. against hordes you still have 3 fp's (which rape hordes, no other way to describe it), a lot of long range fire from serpents and guardians and you should also have a unit of mounted dire avengers. once again scorps aren't bad, they just don't offer you anything you didn't already have or need.

Really, he will only have issues with LRC mech BT. Most other armies will drop to Prisms and maybe a Dragon squad, it isn't that big of an issue. Fire platform Lances or lances on serpents increase the odd's of non BT mech armies from outdoing your anti-tank.

Xenith wrote:Light, I said put the 'tarchs with the troop choice avengers, not the scorps.

Storm guardians are a lot more viable now, although sketchy at anti tank - 2 BS3 melta shots? Maybe a singing spear? you arent going to do much, except to the lightest transports, but then thats what your scatterlasers on other stuff are for. if you want storms, go with 2x flamer+warlock with destructor, in a serpent. use serpents main gun(s) to hit the transport, flamer death the guys that fall out.

Painful. 3 Flamers, almost beats the punishment sisters can dish out.

@Hotsoup:

I'm pretty sure outflank is conferred onto the dedicated transport as well, as long as the unit is embarked on it. You won't be able to assault on the turn the serpent with the scorpions comes in, but it gets them a lot closer. I'd quote the rules for you, but I'm at work and my rulebook is at home.

I disagree... Striking Scorpions with a dedicated transport MAY outflank but they cannot infiltrate.

Pg 94

"During deployment, players may declare that units with 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank the enemy...
Note that if such units are picked from their army list with a dedicated transport, they may outflank with their transport, but they must move onto the table embarked in it."

So can Tau Pathfinders, as can Chaos Chosen in a Rhino, or stormtroopers in a chimera. Soon so can vindicators if they are led by the White Scars special characters for that matter... Welcome to the joys of 5th edition.

Don't you enjoy playing on a 4' x 6' table that feels like a 1 inch by 3 foot table?

If you want to stay with the scorpion flanking... you could try a mobile anvil with the guardian storm spiel. 2 of those with Serpents and TL brightlances can drop vehicles while your prisms light up hordes or whatever...

While I never leave home without a farseer, I do like the idea of the 2 autarchs... That almost makes your 3 scorpion flankers automatic on Turn 2. To mellow it out 1 might do the trick.

If you get point shy, go with the junior farseer and just play doom. Doom a squad and see what flamer templates with rerolled wounds do or that critical unit you want your scorpions to take out. 1 Wimp Autarch would be +3 on turn 2 and would give you time to develop your scorpion assault.

If you have got the points, have fun and let Karandas lead one scorpion squad. Nothing says I love you like 7 S8 attacks that hit on a 3+. Kind of nice way to say hello to termies or obliterators or the random fex or two. Then you can even save 20 to 25 points and not give that exarch any abilities as Karandas confers it on the squad he leads.

Cheezy disgust... declare everything and reserve with two autarchs and out of 8 vehicles 6 should be entering on turn 2.... Meanwhile your opponent is wondering what in heck he should do to entertain himself for the first 1 or 2 turns.

A Farseer with Doom is generally more useful than a second Autarch ever is, IMO. Shuriken weaponry at S4 really benefits from rerolled wounds vs. MEQ and Orks, usually even more than having reserve units come in all at once and right away (unless you go above 3 reserve units).

after some thought, this is what i would run at 1750:

eldrad
avatar

10 howling banshees
1 wave serpent, with tl scatter laser, spirit stones.

9 Fire dragons
1 wave serpent, with tl scatter laser, spirit stones.

10 guardians w/scatter laser
10 guardians w/scatter laser
10 guardians w/scatter laser
10 guardians w/scatter laser

fire prism w/holofields
fire prism w/holofields
fire prism w/holofields

1749 pts.

i know i'm going to get flamed for taking out the avengers, but listen to me first.

eldrad and the avatar are mandatory. sometimes you need guide, other times fortune, but always doom. usually more then not you need to cast all three, so eldrad is in for sure. the avatar keeps your guardians from running from away more consistently then warlocks with embolden. the fact that he barely more expensive then 4 warlocks with embolden is nice. his abilities to fight off cc units from the guardians is icing on the cake.

the three prisms are in for their versatility, range and mobility. holofields are a must, av 12 isn't too hard to crack. ask you opponent how he feels if you DON'T take the holofields. his answer is proof that they are well worth the 35 pts.

it wouldn't be hammer and anvil with out an anvil so 30 guardians are a must.

firedragons are a must, meltaguns for 134 pts is one of the best buys in 40k. nothing kills MC's, termies or tanks like meltaguns. but why 9? because i didn't have enough points for 10. because if i run into a monolith, 6 probably won't do the job. plus with 9 i have a chance of surviving the inevitable shooting that will target them next turn. with 9 i find some usually survive, put them back in the serpent and go for another target that is closing in on the anvil. However with six, maybe one survives.

banshee's are the next thing in because assault is the anvil's only weakness (the avatar can only handle so much), doom + banshees cover the weakness very well. banshees are my preference, i find them more effective then scorps. plus they have fleet, which is nice, and don't need an expensive exarch to be effective.

i decided not to run the dire avengers because honestly they usually did very little for me. i have never played a game and said they were my mvps, i have never wished i had used another squad of them either. 3 fp's and the 2 above mentioned aspect warriors are more then enough to soften income units. i have however wished i had another guardian squad with a platform and the guardians have been my mvps. so instead of trying to make room for dire avengers i decided to include another unit of guardians that fit right in.

in the games i've played at 2k i usually just run the dire avengers because they are painted and go well with the extra wave serpent i want in the list. i haven't played a game where the dire avengers have played an integral role in the army's success (i've played about 15 games with this army at 2k). the guardians always are important in the lists success, they are the work horse.

another interesting idea could be to use pathfinders and rangers for an anvil instead of guardians. i've never tried it because in 3rd i played ulthwe and therefor had the guardians, but no rangers. i would still use eldrad and the avatar of course.

DAaddict wrote:I disagree... Striking Scorpions with a dedicated transport MAY outflank but they cannot infiltrate.

Pg 94

"During deployment, players may declare that units with 'scout' or 'infiltrate' special rules are attempting to outflank the enemy...
Note that if such units are picked from their army list with a dedicated transport, they may outflank with their transport, but they must move onto the table embarked in it."

So can Tau Pathfinders, as can Chaos Chosen in a Rhino, or stormtroopers in a chimera. Soon so can vindicators if they are led by the White Scars special characters for that matter... Welcome to the joys of 5th edition.

Oh. I was going by the Infiltrate rule, which says it doesn't carry over to transports.. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess that is so that you can't abuse it to have a transport go in and leave the squad somewhere else.

Squall, dropping the Avengers would be a good idea. My only caution would be that it lowers your number of tanks on the board, making elimination or stranding of one of those very vital units pretty likely if your opponent knows to focus fire on them (after shaking the Prisms, probably). With three Prisms and two tanks you're still stretching their resources a bit, maybe just enough. But beware and guard those Serpents carefully (cover saves!) to get them where they need to go. Deploying them near Eldrad and giving them the checkered-flag treatment (Fortune on each one) on first turn is a good idea, especially if you can keep your Avatar out of LOS for that turn.

Avengers aren't usually star performers, as you point out. It takes about two turns of shooting and a turn of assault (usually being an anvil with PW/SS and Defend) to pay for themselves plus transports. Plus an extra scatterlaser will probably do almost as much as their shooting, when you add in the versatility of having another anti-transport weapon. Heck, we didn't even have 18" Avengers until recently, and we all made do with Guardians. [/crotchety old gamer mode]

Pathfinders make terrible anvils, actually- if you mean an anvil being a CC tarpit rather than just bait. They're great for holding out against all kinds of shooting, but CC is the end of them quite quickly. Tons of Avatar-led Guardians are better. You might find one unit of Pathfinders for holding your home objective helpful (I even do that with mech), but more than one has diminishing returns, and is definitely not an anvil.

And there we come to the weakness of this list: there are only two hammers (Avatar and Banshees) and both are relatively fragile. As an opponent, I would shoot the bejesus out of that Avatar right away to remove the Fearlessness and one out of 2 CC threats. How have you dealt with this with the list so far?

Well, the mounted Scorpions may provide a decent hammer. But Guardians alone do not provide an anvil. You need to support them by an Avatar and Wraithlords.

Not to fond of the Avatar. Power-wise he might be great, but I imagine my army as a smaller strike force, and an army like that would never include the Avatar.

I'll have to rethink some things based on what people said. perhaps getting some Dragons to replace one of the Scorpion units. It would be fun to have more than two types of units after all. Although I probably won't take Banshees. Yes, they eat MEQ, but I find that Scorpions can do that as well, and they also eat hordes and take more punishment.

Still no clue about the Anvil though. No option seems that great.

there really isn't a better anvil than lots of guardians a avatar and eldrad, wraithlords fit in well too. but never wraithguard.

in my opinion it sounds like you might not be interested in a hammer and anvil list. guardians make the backbone of a anvil, but they will never be able to fulfill that role by them selves as wuestenfux mentioned.

sounds like you like mech or fast moving aspect warriors, try biel tan

Well. Instead of Hammer & Anvil, what about bait and switch.

Two guardian defender squads hugging the back end of your zone with a farseer and each with a Wave Serpent.
Fire off the platforms of your choice and when the enemy gets close abandon cover and dive into your wave serpents.
Fly the wave serpents off to join your flanking scorpions. Depends on how fast your scorpions arrive but hopefully your fire will have
strung out your opponent in his rush to get to your defenders. If you embark and kick in star engines, you could be darn near anywhere you want to be in 1 turn. Dire avengers would also be fine but less reach out and touch range to them for a higher morale.

This will not be ideal in a the home/enemy objective game but it should be a valid tactic in the other two.