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hi everybody i'm starting dark eldar and really like the wych models so i made a list based on what i
thought is good or bad

HQ
lelith
retuine
(9) wych squad
plasma grenades+wych weapons
succumbus (terrorfex)
raider (scaling nets+night shields)
=321pts

ELITES

10 mandrakes
=150pts

TROOPS

(10) wych squad
plasma grenades+wych weapons
succumbus (terrorfex)
raider (scaling nets+night shields)
=231pts

(10) wych squad
plasma grenades+wych weapons
succumbus (terrorfex)
raider (scaling nets+night shields)
=231pts

(10) wych squad
plasma grenades+wych weapons
succumbus (terrorfex)
raider (scaling nets+night shields)
=231pts

FAST ATTACK

(5) reaver jetbike squad
2 blasters
succumbus (webway portal+poisoned weapons)
=181pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

Ravager
2 desintergraders+night shields
=135pts

1500pts (exactly!)

this army holds all of its raiders in reserve with the ravager and the jetbikes out and about deployed so they can't see them first turn.
turn 1 the bikes speed out as fast as they can to the centre of there lines and drop there webway portal and if they can shoot there blasters
the ravager moves in range and fires of its not getting hot plasma cannons and takes on a tank with its lance
turn 2 i roll for reserves and some of my squads should come out, the raider flys very close to an enemy squad and lets the wyches loose
they do there thing (pretty much rip up the squad) and then consolidate back into the vehicle not before the succumbus had shot his terrorfex to pin
them.
turn 3 more come on with a rinse and repeat for the entire army

what do you think? all comments welcome

A couple things...

1) Models on Reaver Jetbikes cannot take a Webway Portal.

2) Tanks (including the Ravager) have to fire all their guns at one unit, it can't split it's fire.

Dark Eldar are a VERY fragile army. Especially when playing as Wyches. If you get caught in the open, they'll almost all die to shooting. You have to be very careful with your assaults. You don't want to wipe a unit in the first turn of CC. You want to kill most of them, then kill the rest in the opponents phase, so you can charge again without being shot.

Also, your army has very little in the way of anti-tank (in terms of DE) I'd drop the Mandrakes and Webway Portal (since you can't use it on the Reavers) and use those 200 points to grab two 10 man units of warriors with two Dark Lances per squad. That gives you four extra lances, which will help A LOT if you face a Mech list. It also ups your model count, which is nice. And maybe, just maybe, your opponent will value his tanks over his squishy infantry and try and shoot the Warriors, which allows your Wyches a turn more of living.

i have 8 dark lances i don't need anymore and since when could'nt you take webway portals on bikes finally tanks have always been allowed to split fire

orkyboss30000 wrote:i have 8 dark lances i don't need anymore and since when could'nt you take webway portals on bikes finally tanks have always been allowed to split fire

Wow...you get some good advice on your list and how the rules actually work, and this is your response?

1- 8 Lances is ok for 1500, but when mounted on frail DE units, they can disappear quickly, so more is always handy.
2- Units on bikes can't take portals since the codex came out
3- Tanks haven't been able to split fire since....ever? 2nd edition, maybe? Hence the Tau vehicle upgrade allowing it to split fire

First off, for the love of whatever you hold dear in life, learn grammar and spelling. Word processing programs even do it for you. Spelling and grammar check is your friend. Moving on...

Indignant opinion wrote:I have 8 dark lances, I don't need any more.

A 500 point DE list has 10 Lances. At 1500 you have 8. That's what he means by your general lack of anti-tank for a DE army. Your raiders will go down in flames very quickly. To make up for this, DE bring a bunch of them to the table. I'd consider 8 to be minimal, you should take Seamus's advice about the Warrior companies. Question: Where do you see 8 Dark Lances? I see 5: HQ Raider, 3 Wych Raiders, Ravager. I also see 2 Blasters, which are not Dark Lances, but would still put you at 7.

Didn't read the fine print wrote:Since when couldn't you take webway portals on bikes?

You could never take webway portals on jetbike units. This has been making DE players sad for a long, long time now.

Flat out wrong wrote:Finally, tanks have always been allowed to split fire.

If by "have always been allowed" you instead mean "have never been allowed," you're right. You aren't Tau, it's not a Hunter-Killer Missile.

Needs work wrote:(10) wych squad
plasma grenades+wych weapons
succubus (terrorfex)
raider (scaling nets+night shields)
=231pts

You should add in two Blasters per squad. 5 points for a miniature Dark Lance? Worth it every time. You'll find that you're not always fleeting, or there are times you wish you could hurt a tank or Monstrous Creature with these. Your Succubus should also come with an Agoniser. Wounding on 4+ and no saves allowed? Perfect for every job. This goes for your HQ retinue, as well.

What are your Mandrakes doing? Nothing your Wyches aren't doing a better job of. Get them out of there, the points are needed elsewhere. Specifically, they're needed for upgrading your Wyches a bit, or for Dark Lance Warriors. No, these points are for wych upgrades. Warrior points are coming next.

Needs more work wrote:(5) reaver jetbike squad
2 blasters
succubus (webway portal+poisoned weapons)
=181pts

Again, can't put a webway portal on a jetbiker. Sorry, you just can't. Codex says so. If you still choose to take these rather overpriced guys, you should drop the Succubus entirely. She makes you think this is an assault unit, it's not. 5 Jetbikers with dual blasters is enough to harass tanks with and only 145 points. Of course, a 10-man squad of Warriors with dual Dark Lances is only 100. A 5-man Dark Lance Warrior squad in another Raider is 105. Leave the Warriors somewhere to snipe people, then harass the opponent with another Raider on the field. Same number of S8 AP2 Lance shots, added flexibility from being in two places at once with one unit, triple the range. Sounds like a better investment to me.

This one's right. wrote:Ravager
2 disentegrator+night shields
=135pts

No, you cannot shoot at different targets. However, the S4 option on the Disentegrators means that you still get to fire all of your weapons within 24" when you need to get out of the way of something by moving more than 6". I wouldn't suggest you being that close to something unless you intend to erase it so it can't shoot back. AV11 and optimal 36" range, the guns are great but Ravagers are so very fragile with relatively short range. Use cover wisely.

okay firstly i get it i was wrong so could you stop harassing me about it

due to those rule changes should i still consider taking a wych list or should i switch to warriors with a kabal?

finally mandrakes are for those units wyches can get like heavy weapon teams etc

Kirbinator wrote:

Flat out wrong wrote:Finally, tanks have always been allowed to split fire.

If by "have always been allowed" you instead mean "have never been allowed," you're right. You aren't Tau, it's not a Hunter-Killer Missile.

Umm, IIRC 2nd edition we could, and 3rd edition also, though am a bit rusty on the 3rd ed rules at this stage. So maybe you'd like to check it first before condeming him as a liar? Otherwise the rules and advice you gave a good, though as a themed force of Wych's Warriors don't IMHO have a place.

Do you have the second edition release of the codex or the first one back when the Dark Eldar were first released as this may be why some rules are confused. The most up to date list has a white circle on the cover saying something like 2nd edition or some such thing.

One thing you should capitalise on in this list is the ability to take a single unit of Warp Beasts per unit of Wyches in the army. Even if you take 3 raider units and 3 small 5 man Wych units so you can maximise the Warp Beast Packs you'd be doing yourself a massive favour as far as anti-infantry ability is concerned. A full pack of 5 Warp Beasts with Beast Master (and the cheapest value for points Agoniser in the entire list!) is just 75pts. The unit churns out 22+ attacks on the charge and are beasts so have a surprisingly fast assault move also. An incredibly useful unit to have around.

Mech armies will be a weakness you have to deal with, however, you don't necessarily need to spam warrior units. You could get some Scourges, a unit with 3 dark Lances, whilst expensive should do the trick on any particularly nasty unit your assault based Wych units can't deal with, but give your wyches all blasters, and tool em up strongly for that.

I don't have the time to grab the codex and give better advice then that but maybe consider 3 small units of reavers with blasters purely to turbo boost and tank hunt.

Auretious Taak.

P.S. A Crucible of Malediction is priceless.

I play DE since their 2nd ed came out.
At the 1500 pt level, three Wych squads are sufficient.
Succubi should have agonizer and trophy rack; drop these terrorfexes.
Raiders will get close to the enemy and thus night shields are a waste of points.
Mandrakes are not a must have in a Wych cult army. I'd drop them and max out the Ravegers; night shields are nice.
Give the Reaver Succubus either agonizer or punisher and tormentor helmet.

thanks so you are saying that wych armies are still worth it and can do alright in games or are you saying that a warrior based list is better

Wyches are deadly in numbers, so once they hit the enemy lines you're golden. BUT, as has been said, they are more fragile than Ork Boyz (there are less of them, and Wyches will run away if for some reason you don't kill them all.) A few Warrior squads with Dark Lances (like I said before) will be a big help, and can EASILY be put in (Take out the Mandrakes and the Webway).

And yeah, the Night Shields on Raiders are pointless. Take them out and you save yourself about 120 points. Grab a second Ravager with 3 Disintegrators (which is exactly 120 points) or go with 3 Dark Lances for extra anti-tank.

Also, Kirbinator, prepare to be sigged!

Sig preparations have commenced.

Orkyboss30000, Wych armies are quite viable, just very difficult to play. DE is a very all-or-nothing army. You'll tend to either dominate games or be obliterated. You'll also very quickly learn the value of first turn.

Keep in mind that you can still start all of your skimmers in Reserves if you wanted to try the whole surprise assault. However, this doesn't tend to work as well as one would hope. You'll usually just wind up with a couple skimmers on the board at a time ready to get shot off the table.

DE are pretty viable in general (coming from the guy who's won 2 games with them... ever.) but it is very true that they are all-or-nothing.

I just hope that you're a better tactician than I am!

And I miscounted on those Night Shields. If you take off all the Raider ones, you'll get back 60 points, which is half of a second Ravager.

sorry to bring this up again but how exactly can't i take webway portals on bikes as there is any specific rule stopping them all it says is you can take extra equipment from the dark eldar armoury

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180149_Dark_Eldar_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Check out the faq if nothing else. Its good to look at it, print it out, and take it wherever you take your codex.

it specifically answers your questions.

Yeah, that's a good idea, notabot.

Also, it says right in the codex, at the very end of the Reaver Jetbike entry on page 14/15.

thanks for that faq it's really cleared up some of my questions
just asking though if you can't give a webway portal to bikes what can get them?

Anyone with access to the armoury. Sybarites, Succubi, Lords, Wych Lords, Haemonculi, etc.

orkyboss30000 wrote:thanks for that faq it's really cleared up some of my questions
just asking though if you can't give a webway portal to bikes what can get them?

as Seamus said:

"Anyone with access to the armoury. Sybarites, Succubi, Lords, Wych Lords, Haemonculi, etc."

But to clarify, they have to be on foot, just not on Reavers. I'm pretty sure they can't be on a Skyboard either, but someone should double check that one for me.

Auretious Taak.

P.S. Whoever takes it, give them a Shadowfield!