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Am getting back into 40k after several false starts and almost 3 years of no gaming with my great love the BAs.

Bought the battalion box and am about to assemble the scouts.

1: In what situation would you ever take shotguns in preference to other weapons?
2: Do the shotgun stats change in the new codex (My codex is due to arrive next week)
3: Also in the new codex can the sgt be armed the same way as the rest of the squad (as is currently the case).

Thanks for any answers.

1. I would take Shotguns in preference to Bolters or Bolt Pistols and Combat Blades if I was planning for the Scouts to go tank-hunting, or engaging I5+ enemies. Unlike Bolters they allow 2 S4 attacks and then allow a follow up assault, which is twice the firepower a Bolt Pistol would allow.

2. Yes. Think Dark Angels.

3. Yes, the Scout Sergeant is armed in the same way as the Scouts that he leads, although he has all the usual Sergeant options in addition to switching out his Bolter for a Shotgun or Combat Blade or Sniper Rifle.

Because they are S4, and because they are awesome.

Take a mix, and remove the Shotguns as casualties after charging into combat.

Thing is, I think they are BS3 now. Not as good as they once were. Bolt Pistols are AP5, too.

Also as I will be using the BA codex and the regular SM codex to run my army depending on my feel for the day, are scouts still troops in the new codex?

Yep.

Excellent thanks.

Shotguns are 12" S4 Ap- assault 2 and costs the same amount of points as a ccw or a sniper rifle, and you get to choose one of the three.

No it is not a trick question.

I know what my scouts are getting.

To really make you laugh, scout bikes have shotguns as well.

Edit: Technically Scout Bikers have shotguns as the bike itself still has (usually) the twin linked bolters.

*prays to various gods that the shotgun upgrade will apply to the new IG codex once it arrives*

al-Majid Agandhjin bin Ahfal al-Rashid

You take scouts with different weapons to dump wounds off.

Personally I'd take scouts with shotguns instead of bolters most times, you'll be shooting against people with cover and AP - is just as good as AP5...plus you can charge.

4 attacks in a turn is nothing to sneeze at.

It won't.

Stelek wrote:You take scouts with different weapons to dump wounds off.

Personally I'd take scouts with shotguns instead of bolters most times, you'll be shooting against people with cover and AP - is just as good as AP5...plus you can charge.

4 attacks in a turn is nothing to sneeze at.

Which doesn't matter on the Relentless Bike. 2 shots at 12" and assault, or 2 shots at 12" and assault. Theoretically the scout bike could have an astartes grenade launcher, but then you're looking at 2 shots at 12" and assault or a blast/krak grenade. The benefit of 2 S4 shots there is pretty limited though hypothetically possible.

Not sure why I'd care about scout bikes, I am pretty sure Gonads has enough intelligence to figure out scout bikes don't need shotguns.

Regular scouts don't have relentless.

Probably what I was talking about, yes?

Probably what you were talking about yes, I'd just pointed out that they come standard on the scout bikers, and it made me laugh a little at the redundancy.

Breton wrote: Theoretically the scout bike could have an astartes grenade launcher, but then you're looking at 2 shots at 12" and assault or a blast/krak grenade. The benefit of 2 S4 shots there is pretty limited though hypothetically possible.

Bikes can only fire weapon per rider though right?
But with Astartes Grenade Launcher being rapid fire (IIRC) and the bikes being relentless that means 3 scout bikes can put out 6 S6 Ap4 shots or 6 3" blast templates at 12".
am I right when I think that's sounds good?
I'm going to try it on my bikes.

getting back on topic, is a mix of shotgun / BP/ CCw best for normal scouts? Am I daft to be thinking of going all sniper (+Telion)?

I'm taking a second look at my scouts. Vs. Horde armies they make an excellent counter-attack unit against the mob that just wiped out whoever they assaulted. Also, against Tau, IG, some Eldar, you can outflank and come on the sides for serious threatening capabilities. Shame they are elites in the DA/BA dex.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yes pretty poor that they made them elite for those codii, there are just too many better options in Elites to bother taking them unless you have a very specific plan for them or you only have enough points for them and nothing else...

You should always have a specific plan for what you're going to do with a unit. In the case of Dark Angel and Blood Angel Scouts, they are Elite compared to Ultramarines - the WS and BS bump makes a huge difference.

I didn't care when shotguns were S3... the 2 shots and charge equals flexibility.

Bolters means you are a poorman's tactical squad...

Bolt Pistols means you are trying to dominate a melee with your worst troopers. (Still better than a lot of other armies choices in HTH)

To me it is shotguns or sniper rifles. Bolters only if I want to field a 10th company army list. Bolt pistols? Leave them to blood angels in their old codex when they had furious charge.

*Shakes fist at GW for only putting 4 of each weapon on the sprue*

Damn it now I'll have to go sgt with CCW/pistol and 4 shotgun scouts until I get a couple more boxes.

You can make shotguns out of almost anything imperial.

Why bother, you get a choice of bolter or swap out for ccw, sniper or shotgun, all in the same price.

Really sniper is the only sane option. if you want fast marines to attack with take assault marines not shotgun scouts.

The only excuse for them is if you want a Land speeder Storm for the leadership hit. Even so its not the scouts that can exploit the -2ld. Really you need to tag team the scouts with an assault squad or similar to make the most of the penalty. As you are doing that you might as well smack the target squad with the sniper rifle butts. Then settle down for some good shooting once the assault marines have done thier job. After all sniper scouts are just as 'effective' in close combat as shotgun scouts.

Ah but the scouts can shoot a squad, shooting does not have LD modifiers anymore so squads stay around, then you can assault them.

Storm scouts let you push weak squads off objectives.

That's all they do, but when you give them shotguns they do it well.

After all, if you get charged...you're probably going to lose those 5 scouts; but if you charge...16 attacks that hit on 4+ and wound on 3+ is quite nice (the sarge does better on his to-hit and he has 5 more attacks).

Sure you can run bolt pistol + CCW, but you then pretty much lose the ability to hurt vehicles from behind because you don't generate enough hits to get a single glance.

With shotguns, you might.

How's that for more reasons?

You've heard of Krak grenades, right?

Krak grenades work in CC? (EDIT: That means against people.)

Krak grenades work on fast moving vehicles?

Neat!

I'm buying up the batallion boxes ATM (one at a time) to quickly build an army. So currently I'm stuck with the regular scouts.

A unit of scout snipers will be a diversion from that plan though...