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I have a question regard the new IC rules under 5th edition.

On pg. 48 under Retinues the rules clearly states that ICs with a retinue/bodyguard becomes a upgrade character. Does this mean they cannot be targeted as a separate target under "Independent Characters & Assault" section on page 49?

I had a situation recently where a space wolves player brought Bjorn, the venerable dreadnought, and attached him to a unit of Wolfguard Terminators. He claimed since the venerable dreadnought was an independent character and has a retinue he cannot be specifically targeted.

Bjorn the Fel-handed does not exist in current 40k. You got hosed by rules-mixing from outdated codices.

To answer your general question, yes, an IC with retinue cannot be singled out anymore. Bjorn, however, not only is not an IC, he doesn't exist beyond a 'normal' venerable dreadnought.

Yeah, Bjorn was never an IC, just an HQ choice. Some people get stuck in the "most HQs are ICs, thus all HQs are ICs, because I can't be bothered not to make assumptions and just read the rules".

A master leading a command squad is still IC right... that does not count for a "retinue/bodyguard" correct?

It's pretty simple really. It's an IC if, under the 'special rules' section of its entry it says, 'independent character.'

I understand IC... but the new independent char rules reguarding retinues/bodyguards make it odd and change the dynamic as the character becomes "hidden".

The key point in the rules is that the IC is joined to a squad, and he cannot leave that squad. In this case he counts as a 'squad upgrade' unless he is the only surviving model, at which point he follows all the IC rules.

So a SM master or captain always count as an IC. An IG Hero in a command squad is a squad upgrade. Nobz aren't a 'bodyguard or retinue' for an ork Warboss, as he can join and leave. A GK hero has a retinue, and counts as a squad upgrade.

We learned that the hard way with the Black Templars characters; non targettable as well.

I guess more specifically... Templars, as I use them... count as the "upgrade"... even though it says for the purposes of CC they remain IC...

Ick... ?!?!?!

I just want to be able to use them properly.

The rulebook says that any character that is attached to a unit that he cannot leave (a retinue) than he becomes an upgrade character for that unit.

So...A tau Crisis Commander and Bodyguard, a Black Templar Marshall or Chaplain and Command Squad, A Grey Knight Hero and retinue, Guard command squads, Dark Eldar Characters and Retinues, etc.

Ooooooh! Waddaminnit!

Does that mean if Mad Doc Grotsnik starts with a unit of boys, (which he can't leave), that they count as the doc's bodyguards for that game?

I'm thinking of how much fun it might be to paint up a mob of 30 gretchin 'orderlies' packing medkits, saws, tongs, brains, and other appropriate stuff the doc needs for fixin up the ladz.

Unfortunately no. I had the same thought when 5th came out, but since the codex doesn't say that the squad he joins becomes his "retinue" he remains an IC. So he has to be targeted seperately in hth.

Don't forget Space Wolves, who have ICs benefiting from the Retinue rule as well.