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Compared to other races such as mech eldar and orks, are space marines really that good in tournaments? I hear that they are decent all around, but not "great".

the new SM codex is comming out very soon so it remains to be seen what they will be able to acheive. from the looks of it there is a lot of option for variety. there are a lot of good units, some interesting new things, and some nice combos. everything seems to be reasonably priced. there are a fair few armylists popping up for them already, and some of them look really nasty.

i think if built and played properly they will be a force to be reckoned with at a competitive level, but i think that is also true for most armys out there.

BT is a viable tournament army, while other SM armies seem to struggle.
The new SM codex will change this situation dramatically.
There will be quite a few decent SM builts.

It really depends on build and how you play them. Even the best build SM or DE can lose to a well played army

Like it was said it depends on the new codex. But marines are of course viable in Tournaments.

I've played in 3 tournaments so far since my return to 40k (with 4th ed, before had only played rogue trader). And I won 2 with my blood angels and came in 6th at a larger tournament; and in that last one ultramarine's won it overall.

Every army is tournament viable.

Every army is tournament viable.

Amen.

In a cheese festival, the number of viable armies gets heavily reduced.
To be a bit more specific, Nidzilla, horde Orks, lash CSM armies, and mech Eldar are hard to take on with Space Marines.

Who DOESN'T have issues with lash CSMs and nidzilla cheese?

wuestenfux wrote:

Every army is tournament viable.

Amen.

In a cheese festival, the number of viable armies gets heavily reduced.
To be a bit more specific, Nidzilla, horde Orks, lash CSM armies, and mech Eldar are hard to take on with Space Marines.

i dont think this is necessarily true any more. with lots of the new stuff that SM get in their new codex i think that they will be one of the best options with which to build an 'all comers' list. there are elements in the codex that enable a SM player to take on anything, and a properly built list will do just that. all of those builds you mentioned, with the exception of horde orks, took a bit of a hit when 5th came out and combat tactics give SM an advantage over orks and combat armies generally.

Cheese Elemental:

I have no problem with dual Lash of Submission/multiple Obliterators lists. They were weak in 4th edition, and weaker in 5th edition. I think it's a pity so many people are still so fixated on them. Maybe that says something about the state of the game.

Likewise 'Nidzilla for people that knew the combination of shooting and close combat at which that list should be notoriously vulnerable. They're even weaker in 5th edition now that only troops are scoring.

In both cases I think it's a case of players calcifying into a pattern of rock-scissors-paper because they concentrate too much on list-building and not enough on list-using. Some units simply require a defter touch than many players are able or interested in giving; they need precision and forethought.

It's no coincidence that the most popular units and lists are 'user-friendly', perhaps even 'player-elastic' if you will, and part of the problem with Marines is that they appear to be very forgiving, but their precise and most effective use is also amongst the most challenging in the game.

Its a damn good idea

To build and play a space marine army! Damn Good!

Why? Because unlike almost every one else you will lack overpowering HQ units, and you will be forced to think about your list and how to play it.

And it will be excellent training to take your space marines and play against the cheesiest most overpowered Chaos, Ork, Tyrannid and Eldar lists you can find.

Thus learn how to play and win the game tactically by controlling, range, movement, timing and combinations of units.

Overcoming the feared enemy is what its all about.

OTG

Nurglitch wrote:USE TACTICS

Ok, we get it already. You don't believe in the existence of "weak" units (except the ones everybody uses). Up is down and black is white. Whatever. Next.

Orc Town Grot:

That's a very good point. Space Marines, being all-rounders and really diverse, are great for learning the basics of successful game-play.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Durrrr

My, what an insightful comment. Can I subscribe to your newsletter?