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I've recently gotten into VC and I'm still into painting well over 80 ghouls at the moment. I just read the Tactica article (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/181776.page) outlining some of the basic strategies of army composition and use in WHFB. After reading that I realize I've been building toward a horde army for VC for quite some time with all these ghouls. So I'm going to present a few different lists, mainly just different set ups, to get some more experienced views on how well each will do compared to each other.

First List:

Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud, Dispel Scroll 190 pts. (Goes in Group A)
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, The Flayed Hauberk, Dispel Scroll 195 pts. (Goes in Group B)
Vampire, Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death, Book of Arkhan 180 pts. (Goes in Group C, Army general)
Vampire Lord, Flying Horror, Red Fury, Avatar of Death 405 pts. (Goes it alone, will try to flank or coordinate attacks with the Varghulf)

19xGhouls, Ghast 160 pts. (Group A)
19xGhouls, Ghast 160 pts. (Group B)
19xGhouls, Ghast 160 pts. (Group C)
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts. (Alpha)
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts. (Beta)
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts. (Delta)

10xBlack Knights, Hell Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer w/ Hellish Vigor 305 pts. (Vigor Group)
10xBlack Knights, Hell Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer w/ Banner of the Dead Legion 305 pts. (Legion Group)

Varghulf 175 pts.

Total: 2499

Groups A and B go on the eastern and western flanks. In the Center will lie C group with Alpha directly in front of it. Beta and Delta groups cover the gaps between each of the larger blocks. The Black Knights rest on the flanks of each side and the Vaghulf will start behind either Beta or Delta group possibly just to their side while the Vampire Lord will be directly behind the group the Varghulg is not.

The Strategy, like in the tactica, is to simply advance up the middle. With all the casting dice I have I should have atleast one other Vanhel's besides the book of Arkhan. The first turn I start further up on the board then pump all my ghouls as I march forward. This is were I start to fling whatever spells I can to protect whatever random Vanhels I have at the end aswell as the book. I'm newer so I don't know if I would be able to cast Vanhel's on the group the caster is in. If so that would be my plan. If not I would send Alpha, Beta or Delta groups forward. The Vigor group will also have etherial moved up in front of one of the flanks as well as the Legion group depending on how many Vanhel's I have at my disposal. They are there to move past terrain and hit warmachines when they can. The Varghulf is moving up no matter what. The Vampire Lord I would fly deep behind enemy lines to flank or hunt warmachines after a turn or two of using him for buffing up a group of ghouls.

Now for list two:

Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud, Dispel Scroll 190 pts. (Goes in Group A)
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, The Flayed Hauberk 170 pts. (Goes in Group B)
Vampire, Ghoulkin, Cadaverous Curiass, Book of Arkhan, Talisman of Lynci 185 pts. (Goes in Group C)
Vampire Lord, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Black Periapt, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, +1 Magic Level 410 pts. (Goes in Group D, Army General)

9xGhouls, Ghast 80 pts. (Group A)
9xGhouls, Ghast 80 pts. (Group B)
9xGhouls, Ghast 80 pts. (Group C)
9xGhouls, Ghast 80 pts. (Group D)
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts.
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts.
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts.
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts.
10xGhouls, Ghast 88 pts.

10xBlack Knights, Hell Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer w/ Hellish Vigor 305 pts. (Vigor Group)
10xBlack Knights, Hell Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer w/ Banner of the Dead Legion 305 pts. (Legion Group)

Varghulf 175 pts.

Total: 2500

This one is a lot simpler. Groups A, B, C and D, are the back line. The other 5 groups of ghouls form the line in front of them. The Black Knights go on each of the flanks and the Varghulf supports Legion group as best as he can. First turn is the free move follow by a steady march then heavy buffing from all the vampires. The number of spells will either overwhelm the enemy or give him a headache trying to dispel them all. The last spells that will be cast are the Vanhel's. Using any I get from the Vampires themselves to throw buffed units of Ghouls into the enemy lines. The book will either push another unit of ghouls forward or move one of the Black Knights groups forward into combat.


Which list lends it self better to overall victory using the horde strategy? The group I'll be playing with is pretty wide open with almost every army in the game present (besides maybe tomb kings). If neither list is very suitable what should I do to improve them? Is my thinking right in my strategies of moving up the board? Or should I be waiting for my opponent to get close enough to charge? I'm particularly worried about one very experienced player's Orge Kingdom army. I feel like those very few very strong models might be able to overpower and take out entire units of ghouls in one fell swoop. Any tips/suggestion/advice on that with my chosen strategy would also be much appreciated. Any help at all would be much appreciated.

Probably you should split your knights into 4 smaller groups instead. The extra rank bonus is probably not worth the cost.

Mnemoch wrote:Probably you should split your knights into 4 smaller groups instead. The extra rank bonus is probably not worth the cost.

I know they can fight in two ranks with their spears. I does make more sense to have 4 mobile groups of harassment on the field rather than two though, can get flanks off better. If I do break them down into 4 groups should I cut the banners?

mounted units do not get spear bonus, they get +1 str on the charge.

your knights don't even have spears, they have lances = +2 str on the charge.

for vampire knights I would actually go with the 10 man units instead of 4 smaller ones. Thats because they can run in and auto break almost anything that doesnt have immunity to fear (becoming all the more common out there though).

I'm newer so I don't know if I would be able to cast Vanhel's on the group the caster is in

you can, any unit near the caster and he is near himself.

I think as a hoard army the second army is better. more units, and since you cant raise new ones more is better.
I would drop a couple units and get lots o dogs. fast cav, war machine hunters, redirectors, flankers, etc. they are worth it.
Keep the vamps in the back rand of goul units for a short time but move them up as soon as you think the gouls will not get flattened by enemy missile fire or elite combat blocks. Those vampires can get a prety good save and are good at killing rank and file.
O, and sacrifice something to get those vamps heavy armor, hand weapon, and shield. they will see combat and should be geared to survive against rank and file..

GL

People who field knights in more than one rank don't do it because they can attack
in two ranks (they can't). They field knights in two ranks, or rather, 6 wide and 2
ranks deep if they want to field a unit that's hard to deal with, that will cause
hard to save wounds, and gain a rank bonus so that their SCR starts at +2 (rank
bonus and standard). If they can maneuver their knights to flank a block, even
better.

Since the knights will probably not be charging on their own, they don't need to outnumber. They'll be going for a flank charge on a unit that's likely already been pinned and outnumbered by ghouls. I'd rather have the extra attack power and versatility of MSU knights, in that situation. Only if you're relying on the knights in a vaccum would that be possibly worthwhile, and I'd still try the MSU road and get off multiple charges.

Your vampires look good. You never want to risk your lord by sending him off on his own. Fast support units (see below) are much better choices for hunting war machines.

The ghouls are solid, if extremely repetitive.

At 2500 I'd go with three smaller units of 5-6 knights. A big hammer unit is alright, but smaller ones are more tactically flexible. Anywhere from two to four units of Dire Wolves are fantastic as cheap redirectors and for attacking light enemy units. A unit of Fell Bats would give you some very helpful flying support.

Most places in the US play either 2000 or 2250 as standard.

I think ghouls have a min unit size of 10. I can't be sure, but I think so.