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This is a project that has been playtested, but not run locally nor actually bought yet. Special, eh.

Since quite a few people think I'm not interested in running the army and all I wanna do is bash it--here you go.

Next month we'll see if I can get it all, it is rather pricey...

It has weaknesses (tank shocking off objectives, some vehicles are a pain to kill) but that's the way the Demons are.

In the end, this is as "competitive" as I've been able to tweak the book.

21 crushers and 7 or 8 breaths of chaos plus durable troops...works decently enough.

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Organization:

Bearers are the take a beating goofballs, who happen to have my Icons.

Crushers are the CC beaters, of course.

Oops can't do this...

I group the Tzeentch Heralds with the Demon Prince units.

Usually 1 herald attaches to each Demon Prince, so I can get two Breaths of Chaos out of each unit--Scribes just attaches to one unit, giving me a 3rd flamer template that can go wherever.

All heralds 'We are legion' so he can be placed in a different direction and fry someone else if necessary.

Princes and Heralds go together, having flamers of death is not a bad thing.


The heralds can detach and go hunting vehicles, the Demon Princes usually discourage people from assaulting them.

Yes, I am aware the DP die easily. Iron Hide or not, they die easily, so I don't waste the 90 points on it.

My last couple of games I've been dropping the DP and the heralds in pairs for better flamer placement, so I guess it's a wash anyway.

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Wave 1 - preferred 3+ or bleh:

Bloodcrusher units 1/2/3, Plague Bearer unit 1 and 2 (7 man squads)

Wave 2 - preferred enter whenever:

Prince/Herald units 1/2/3 and Plaguebearer unit 3 (5 man squad).

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2000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster - Chaos Demons

1 The Blue Scribes @ 130 Pts
Unit Type: Jump Infantry; S: Independent Character; rDG: Boon of Mutation; rDG: Breath of Chaos; rDG: Daemonic Gaze; DGT: Master of Sorcery; DGT: We Are Legion; rDGN: Aura of Decay; rDGS: Pavane of Slaanesh; rDGT: Bolt of Tzeentch; rDGT: Warpfire; S: Watch This!; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
1 Chaos Spawn @ [0] Pts
Unit Type: Beasts; S: Fearless; S: Fleet; S: Slow & Purposeful; S: Mindless; S: Random Attacks

1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 105 Pts
Unit Type: Jump Infantry; S: Independent Character; rDG: Daemonic Gaze; DGT: We Are Legion; rDG: Breath of Chaos; DS: Disc of Tzeentch; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 105 Pts
Unit Type: Jump Infantry; S: Independent Character; rDG: Daemonic Gaze; DGT: We Are Legion; rDG: Breath of Chaos; DS: Disc of Tzeentch; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

1 Herald of Tzeentch @ 105 Pts
Unit Type: Jump Infantry; S: Independent Character; rDG: Daemonic Gaze; DGT: We Are Legion; rDG: Breath of Chaos; DS: Disc of Tzeentch; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

7 Bloodcrushers of Khorne @ 280 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DG: Iron Hide; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Power Weapon; S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

7 Bloodcrushers of Khorne @ 280 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DG: Iron Hide; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Power Weapon; S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

7 Bloodcrushers of Khorne @ 280 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DG: Iron Hide; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Power Weapon; S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 105 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGN: Plaguesword; DG: Chaos Icon (x1); DG: Instrument of Chaos (x1); S: Feel no Pain; S: Slow & Purposeful; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

7 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 140 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGN: Plaguesword; DGN: Noxious Touch (x1); DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Feel no Pain; S: Slow & Purposeful; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

7 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 140 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGN: Plaguesword; DGN: Noxious Touch (x1); DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Feel no Pain; S: Slow & Purposeful; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 110 Pts
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; rDG: Breath of Chaos; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 110 Pts
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; rDG: Breath of Chaos; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

1 Daemon Prince of Chaos @ 110 Pts
Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; rDG: Breath of Chaos; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors

Total Roster Cost: 2000

what's the plan for a 1750pts standard?

what's the plan for a 1750pts standard?

Depends on personal preference. So you can answer it by yourself.
I'd mainly drop one Herald/Prince combo.

Is it really a good idea to not have iron hide on the Princes? Or are you planning on using them as one hit wonders with a good shot of 'Breath of chaos'?

Not sure if the Heralds can "join" with the Monstrous Creature Daemon Princes - aside from the fact that they're not usually units one can join with (like Eldrad joining with the Avatar), my interpretation of Daemonic Rivalry would seem to disallow it unless the Princes have MoT.

19 Plaguebearers doesn't seem like a whole lot, not for all the objective holding you have to do, though they are reasonably tough to get through individually.

Heralds can't join up with DP.

Pg 48 of the 40k rulebook under the Independent Characters joining and leaving units.

Independent characters are allowed to join other units. They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures).

Demon princes aren't independent characters.

I agree without iron hide, relying on a 4++ save is too risky, especially as they're the only monstrous creatures. I'd think a pair of soul grinders would be more effective as far as taking a beating and dealing it out go.

I'd also consider dropping some crushers for some flamers, they always attract lots of fire power, and a good landing causes excessive damage.

Awww we knew there was a catch, I admit we were just too lazy and uncaring to look it up.

Oh well, they can join each other so no big deal really.

The rivalry rules don't mention unmarked units.

I'll fix the comments above, thanks for noticing that Shaggoth.

Oh and let's see...the DP are targets as are the Heralds. If you really want to kill them, feel free to do so. Against most armies, they do their damage and if they die...it's ok, they are dirt cheap for a reason. If you run the math, Iron Hide really doesn't help a whole lot on DP's.

As far as objective holding, well in games with 2 objectives the 5 man bearer unit drops onto the one in back. In games with multiple objectives, I still only need to control one and contest the others. I built them small to make them look vulnerable, only lootas give them a rough time.

I have experimented with making them 3x5 and giving the DP pavane, not really sure if I dig it or not. It does make for amusing flamer death on occasion though.

Reaver83 wrote:Demon princes aren't independent characters.

I agree without iron hide, relying on a 4++ save is too risky, especially as they're the only monstrous creatures. I'd think a pair of soul grinders would be more effective as far as taking a beating and dealing it out go.

I'd also consider dropping some crushers for some flamers, they always attract lots of fire power, and a good landing causes excessive damage.

Well I am glad I've been accidentally playing by the rules the last couple of games lol.

The DP's only have a 5+ save. I have thought about adding a single soulgrinder--thing is, since this is more of a 'fun' army...I really only want to run models I like.

I love DP's, and hate the defiler/grinder model.

When the army rolls a 3+, it lands and you take alot of damage from the 7/8 flamer templates I already have.

Why add more?

The whole reason to take these units is to give me the punch of both flamers and crushers.

Anyway I don't really see a need to add more flamers, but I might add a single grinder--mostly so it can sit on my back objective and prevent enemies from tank shocking me off an objective.

I do have something I can use for it, just not sure if I really wanna. Definitely would be a custom model job, that Soulgrinder is fuuuugly.

Also, what's your plan against mechanized forces? Something like SoB or Rhino-mounted Marines, or against armies like mech-Eldar or mech-Tau? We'll leave aside the problem of LR spam, and assume no Mystics or other specifically anti-DS countermeasures. This is where Breath has its major weakness, in that you can only glance vehicles - you're not going to be destroying much of anything on the drop.

tzeentchling wrote:Also, what's your plan against mechanized forces? Something like SoB or Rhino-mounted Marines, or against armies like mech-Eldar or mech-Tau? We'll leave aside the problem of LR spam, and assume no Mystics or other specifically anti-DS countermeasures. This is where Breath has its major weakness, in that you can only glance vehicles - you're not going to be destroying much of anything on the drop.

True, you don't kill much on the drop with flamers, but I believe you need to pretend like you are a tyranid army and if you can't destroy the enemy in CC you probably won't end up destroying them.

Essentially against everything but LR spam, the crushers do their best to beat it down. With S6 they do a good job against AV10.

The heralds will probably be changed to jetbike heralds so they have more wounds available, always been a weakness but perhaps 5 wounds would serve them better--and I don't have to convince myself that a chariot has it's place on the battlefield. lol

Have a neat idea on how to model it, but it'll be pricey...

Against stjohn70's immolator army...well, he's really quite good with it and I don't know if I can beat the Immolators moving 12" and frying me.

Thankfully most people don't have that kind of 5th edition list (yet) so who knows?

Jetbike heralds are indeed awesome, mine went down but rarely, and only if I did something stupid with them. You might consider giving them bolt instead of breath, but breath is good against more units.

How comfortable are you with spending $25 x 21 = $525 on Crushers?

Reaver83 wrote:Demon princes aren't independent characters.

You are correct, DP aren't Independent Characters, but the Heralds are. The rule on page 48 says that the Heralds can't join into the single model unit of the DP. The Heralds can join each other or join a unit in the army that isn't a soulgrinder or single model unit ie. monstrous creature.

tzeentchling wrote:Jetbike heralds are indeed awesome, mine went down but rarely, and only if I did something stupid with them. You might consider giving them bolt instead of breath, but breath is good against more units.

I might give them bolt and breath if I felt the need.

tzeentchling wrote:How comfortable are you with spending $25 x 21 = $525 on Crushers?

It's not a problem.

An independent character is a unit of 1, and the rulebook specifically disallows independent characters joining a unit that always consists of one model. See the quote above.

And what makes cheap Juggers...because that's where the money's at.

Stelek wrote:
Well I am glad I've been accidentally playing by the rules the last couple of games lol.

This just has to be sig'd

looks like a list that has considerable potential... I would be interested to read some batreps.

G

I will only be able to oblige once I work out getting the models and who is going to build them...since I can't, and I've got my Black Templars "in the shop" so to speak.