| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
 |
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/09/30 10:11:38
Subject: Eldar Codex changes - Vypers as Jetbikes, etc.
|
 |
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge
|
A few changes jump out of the pages at me in the Eldar codex which need made, most of the codex though is actually already pretty good and clear...
1) Vypers as Jetbikes -
These were already weak and just became nearly useless under 5th edition, namely that a regular bolter stands a good chance of taking one down, making them nearly not worth the same/more points of the similarly powerful War Walker.
Proposal - Treat Vypers as 2-man Bike (Eldar Jetbike) models following the same rules as multi-passenger bikes and giving them a similar stat line to the SM equivalent. Points cost can happily remain the same. They lose the ability to take vehicle upgrades and their papery vehicle armor, but gain the eldar jetbike movement, possibility for 3+ cover saves from flat-out movement, and the "fire one weapon per passenger" rule.
Optional additions -
(a) They may be taken as an upgrade to an existing regular Eldar Jetbike squadron, 1 Vyper per squadron total (or for every 3 jetbikes) at regular Vyper cost.
(b) They may only have 1 melee attack for both riders considering one is contained in the cockpit and the other is packed up really high in the air.
BS---WS---S---T----W---I---A---Ld---Sv
-3-----3-----3--3(4)--2---4---2---8----3+
2) Wave Serpent Weapons -
Wave Serpents should be able to take twin-linked weapons at the stated cost, or 2 different weapons at the standard point cost (same as War Walkers, Falcons, Guardians, etc)
3) Wraithlord Twin-Linked Weapons -
Taking a twin-linked weapon in lieu of 2 single weapons should incur the same cost as a twin-linked weapon on a Wave Serpent +5 points.
4) Storm Guardians Squad Size -
Storm Guardians can/should operate with as few as 8 total members to reflect the box set, this one is more for convenience than anything else. They should also have the plasma grenade upgrade option to make them any kind of actually useful.
5) War Walkers as Fast Attack -
Given their armor, infiltration skill, and general weaknesses, these things should fall into the Fast Attack category instead of Heavy Support category similar to the IG walkers.
6) Conceal Warlock Power -
Instead of giving a flat cover save out in the open, it should instead give a +1 or +2 bonus to existing cover save (giving effectively 6+ or 5+ in the open), making it worth the high points cost. Right now the only use I see for this is on Jet Locks or Seers to give the bikes/Wraithguard a crappy cover save on the march. Guardians/Stormies/Warlock Council/Heavy Weapons Crews should either be already protected by a 4+ cover or 4+ invulnerable save, and conceal should improve this, not make it worse.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/30 10:15:42
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/09/30 12:10:44
Subject: Eldar Codex changes - Vypers as Jetbikes, etc.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
Springhurst, VIC, Australia
|
Being an eldar player, i totally see were you are coming from and have to agree
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/09/30 14:51:50
Subject: Eldar Codex changes - Vypers as Jetbikes, etc.
|
 |
Proud Phantom Titan
|
Vypers as Jetbikes ... makes so much more sence Wave Serpent Weapons ... not sure this just sounds like another faclon ... why not just make the falcon a dedicated transport (and heavy like a LR) Wraithlord Twin-Linked Weapons ... yep i don't know why you'd twin link a weapon at the moment ... for the points it should also give you BS5 Storm Guardians Squad Size ... na GW should just give us plastic ones in boxes of 10s or 20s War Walkers as Fast Attack ... or why not troop Conceal Warlock Power ... that or make the skill like vale of tears (so the unit can't be targeted) Also a personal thing i'd like the support Weapon battery increased in size so the units 1-5 (possibly letting you buy extra guardians)
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/30 14:52:51
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/10/01 16:11:17
Subject: Re:Eldar Codex changes - Vypers as Jetbikes, etc.
|
 |
Morphing Obliterator
|
i agree with you on all points, except 2 and 6.
i dont think there is any need to give a wave serpent the option to have two weapons. such an option would make the falcon redundant. a serpent is a transport not a take. its weapons systems should only be a secondary consideration.
I think using conceal to effectively give a unit stealth would require a much larger price then what we have now. think about the application. you either have squads of guardians that have a 3+ cover save sat on objectives or you have a turbo-boosting jetbike council with a re-rollable 2+save. thats far too good. i do agree that conceal isnt used much now but i dont think that there is necessarily any easy way to improve it.a reduction to 10pts would be a start though.
|
taking up the mission
Polonius wrote:Well, seeing as I literally will die if I ever lose a game of 40k, I find your approach almost heretical. If we were to play each other in a tournament, not only would I table you, I would murder you, your family, every woman you ever loved and burn down your house. I mean, what's the point in winning if you allow people that don't take the game seriously to live? |
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/10/01 16:58:10
Subject: Eldar Codex changes - Vypers as Jetbikes, etc.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I like these changes, but there are a few more! The Eldar codex is really sad for 5th ed.
(7)HQ choice Pheonix Lords should make their respective Aspect a troop choice. Karandaras should infiltrate and or outflank.
(8)Eldar tanks need a special rule for defensive weapons at S6. Right now they just dont shoot them at least for shuriken cannons. So the guardians can move and fire a shuriken cannon but the tanks can't? Yea...
(9)The Fire prism needs to go back to rolling to hit, its lame as a deviation weapon, it went from the most accurate Tank to the least overnight...
(10)Special powers that come from squad member upgrades need to change to squad upgrades, like exarch powers and warlock powers, hit and run, embolden, enhance and the like, just need to be a squad upgrade, like tank hunter or camo cloak in other armies.
(11) The legacy rending on snipers needs to get FAQ'd to be like everyone else, and bring into line with 5th.
(12) Guardians need to come in platoons like IG, little seer council and 2 squads cause thats what they are, IG.
(13) Waveserpents need to be cheaper. Drop Pod 35, Razorback 40, Chimera 80 Waveserpent 110? Like a predator, yer kidding.
(14) Wraithguard need 18 inch range.
(15) Eldar assault units need to get their haywire grenades back (Harlequins, Scorpions and Banshees, and Swoopinghawks, oh wait? Why do Hawks have them?).
(16) Harlequins death jesters need to have the ability to take a bright lance.
(17) Star cannons need to go back to 3 shots...
...
You know what, the Eldar codex just sucks, never mind it needs to be redone completely, ahh well, maybe in 2015.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/01 16:59:59
|
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
|