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I'm interested in your thoughts on the following 1750 Mech list. Any and all critiques appreciated.

Master of the Forge (Harness & Combi-melta) @110
Chaplain (Jump pack & Combi-melta) @130

Techmarine- (Harness & Combi-melta) @85
Techmarine- (Harness & Combi-melta) @85
SG Vets- x5 SM (x5 Combi-melta) in Razorback (AC) @230

Tac 1- x10 SM (Flamer, Fist, ML) in Razorback (AC) @270
Tac 2- x10 SM (Flamer, Fist, ML) in Razorback (AC) @270
Tac 3- x5 SM (Combi-melta) in Razorback (AC) @175
Tac 4- x5 SM (Combi-melta) in Razorback (AC) @175

Assault Sqd 1- x5 SM (Fist/ Flamer) @135

Whirlwind- @85

Purpose of MoF and Techmarines:
+ Puts a Fist, Flamer and extra melta shot in the SG Vets, 3rd and 4th Tac squads for the cheapest amount of points, allowing the AC Razorback spam.
+ Fortify a terrain piece or 3
+ May just repair something every now and again.

Am I missing some glaringly obvious downside to the MoF and TMs?
Should I keep the Razorbacks cheap with Heavy Bolters instead of 175 points of Assault cannons?

Tear it apart gents. I'll gladly start over from scratch if it's that bad....

This is a battleforce army.

Relying on tactical squads without some serious support to keep people away from them, is asking to not win.

The techmarines confuse me.

Minimum size assault squad is a suicide squad?

Chaplain + 5 assault marines = dead.

Tactical squads should not be taken just for a combi-weapon.

SG vets x6 if you are going to put them in a razorback.

You can't have a foot force and a mech force reliably unless you are running very very specific builds and this isn't one of them, so you might want to redo this.

Imagine a demon army opposite you with 40+ plaguebearers, 3 soulgrinders and two demon princes....

What are those autocannons going to target? Plaguebearers with 5+ save and 4+ feel no pain? Soulgrinders with 13 armor and shrug of stun and shaken? Demon princes with T6 and 4+ saves?

What is your marine answer? Fire off my single melta shots and then pray? Hide in my razorbacks and hope my armor 10 keeps me alive?

I like razorback spam but I am not sure of the autocannons... It is same cost for TL Las or Las/Plas I think... If you are going to spam 5 of them I would go with one of those.

I think your number of 5-man squads is going to undermine you against hoards... combi-meltas are good for eliminating one big threat but how about 20 demons or 2 or 3 units of 30 orcs bearing down on you...

Personnally, lose the assault company and come up with some armored alternatives if you have 5 razorbacks out there, don't give your opponent any troop type targets to shoot up. Add some predators or vindicators or speeders.

It's assault cannons not autocannons, mate.

Razorbacks are AV11.

As an example 3 autocannon hb sponson preds with a pintle stormbolter cost you as much as those techmarines and MoF do and you even have points to spare. Put TL Las on the razorbacks and they deal with the big tanks while the 3 predators shoot up the hordes for you... with 10 dice apiece...

If you like the improved cover save, how about super scout and his band of merry snipers with heavybolter and camo cloaks...

They are now earning a 3+ cover save for you as is and if you want that MoF he can improve their terrain to 2+... He could sit in the back with a conversion beam and light up targets at a distance for you...

Stelek wrote:It's assault cannons not autocannons, mate.

Razorbacks are AV11.

They are AV11 on the front and side but those plaguebearers will be banging on the rear armor and that is NOT AV11, mate.

Great Assault Cannons... so now I get 4 S6 shots and 1 out of 6 will deal with a FnP... I have 5 of them...

20 shots ... 13 hit... rerolls for tl... 5 more hit... 18 hits... 3 rend and on plaguebearers... 9 more wound...
He makes 1 invulnerable on the rend 2 dead. he make 3 on the wounds and 3 feel no pains. Let me hold my breath 5 16 point plaguebearers down from what 330 points worth of vehicle fire... 5 more turns of that and I might get my points out of it.

Definitely assaults are good against soulgrinders... If I unload all 5 of them I get 3 rends on average and on average 2 of them are going to be pens... I just might drop 1 160 point soulgrinder with again 330 points of fire... now I just have to make sure I can get within 24" with 5 vehicles and not let a plaguebearer or anything else come knocking on my AV 10 rear.

Do the Las/Plas... hmmm if stationary 5 S9 AP2 10 TL 7 AP2.... I think we average about 3+ las hits and 8 to 9 plasmas...
I will hit 12 times, wound 10 and he saves about 3. That is 7 dead plaguebearers... Also pretty good on the demon princes. The assault cannons are probably superior on the soulgrinders... The plas will likely do nothing... averages a little over 1 glance and 3 las should be a little less 1 pen when it is all said and done. On the other hand, I can just keep shooting the las without having to get within 24" whereas the AC has to get up close.

You can't compare AC razorbacks solely against one list and call them bad.

Agreed. They are not all bad.

Shoot at marines... I expect to see a lot of them with the new codex.

20 shots, 18 hits, 3 rend, 12 wound. 3 dead from rend and 4 dead after armor saves....

Shoot at termies... 20 shots 12 wound 3 rend. 2 dead from rend and 2 dead after armor saves. (Only 3 dead if storm shields)

Shoot at 5 on rushing razorbacks.... 20 shots 18 hit, 3 glance and 3 pen. If they don't bunch up on one... I should stop 2 or 3 in their tracks.

Shoot at 2 landraiders... 20 shots, 3 rend, 1 pens 1 glances ... 50/50 it is stopped or dead.

Las/plas

5 shots, 3 hits 10shots 9 hit. 12 hits S9/7 AP2 10 dead marines. (If I am moving, only kill 7-8 marines since I lose the las shots)

Shoot at terminators 10 wounds... 6-7 dead terminators. (With storm shields 3.33 dead terminators)

Shoot at 5 on rushing razorbacks ... 3 S9 hits, 9 S7 hits. 5 pens, 3.5 glance... Again if they don't bunch up a slightly higher kill ratio than assault cannons.

Shoot at 2 landraiders 5 shots, 3 hits, .5 pens .5 glances.


My conclusion: Assault cannons will rock hoards (TL heavy bolters are better for this for the cost)
Las/Plas will handle the most varied armies.
TL Las is best for AV 13 or less and high toughness creatures and have range advantage on AC.
Assault cannons are superior to any lascannon at taking out AV 14.
Assault cannons and Las/Plas are about the same on the move since I have to chose Las or Plas.
If your dice roll an above average number of 6's Take assault cannons for the volume of dice.

You want the most flexible of the 4, give me the Las/Plas.
You want to spam it, I don't want to box myself in without the best all-purpose weapon layout.