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Now that sniper rifles are free, are scouts a no brainer?

Free, but BS3, correct?

I think scouts hanging out on an objective in cover in your deployment zone is a solid plan.

I also think that scouts coming in from the edge and jumping into melee with a fist is pretty solid, oddly enough. WS3 is not much of a downside against anything other than IG, whom will now require a 4+ to hit. They are still S4, T4 and I4, and a 4+ save isn't too bad all told. I suppose you can pop them in the speeder for the -2 Ld modifier, but even without it they can threaten a firebase pretty well.

Still, I don't think you will see all scout troop armies. I don't think they are quite cheap enough to spam considering their BS3 and 4+sv, but a unit or two with sniper rifles hanging out in your deployment zone enjoying a 3+ cover save isn't half bad.

Ah, I didn't notice the BS3, and I was still thinking sniper rifles hit on a 2+.

I think it truly depends. It is easier to get heavy weapons in a Scout unit (totally awesome Hvy Bolter and Missile Launcher) than in a Tactical Squad.
So that, coupled with Camo Cloaks makes them a great choice for a SAFH army-type and objective camping.

mauleed championing scouts. The sky is falling.

They are still a little better in the new dex compared to 4ed.

4ed sniper scout vs 3+ save (cost for 5 is 90 points)
5/6 hit x 1/2 wound x 1/3 fail save = 5/36 avg kills

5ed sniper scout vs 3+ save (cost for 5 is 75 points)
1/2 hit x 1/3 non rend wound x 1/3 fail save + 1/2 hit x 1/6 rend = 5/36 avg kills

Of course cover saves reduce the effectiveness of the 5ed sniper, while cover was a non issue in 4ed.

I'd say there's quite a few options as far as troops. Bikes are 25 points now and can be taken as troops. Tacticals can take 40 point HB razorbacks. Vulkan makes standard tacticals with heat based weapons pretty damn dependable. And scout snipers w/ cloaks are like cheap rangers for Space Marines.

I'd be hard pressed to pick a defacto standard.

Maybe it's a good thing that there is no longer a default Troops choice in the Space Marine army list.

Nurglitch wrote:Maybe it's a good thing that there is no longer a default Troops choice in the Space Marine army list.

There will be.

Yeah man. Missle flamer, duh!

I don't know, I look at scouts compared to other armies and they seem good for thier points, 13 points up against a fire warrior for 10 and they have a similar save, increased toughness and drastically incresed melee capabilities, so in that light yeah they seem good.

But then I look at space marines and 3 points seems pretty cheap for +1 WS +1 BS and +1 to thier save, and they can get some special weapons cheaper, although losing infiltrate etc. I honestly think that they are both competitive units and will work best when used together in honesty

I don't know. The more i read the book, the more I think I should be painting orks.

Did you ever have a bunch of people run identical ork armies to see what the difference in scores and soft scores would be?

mauleed wrote:I don't know. The more i read the book, the more I think I should be painting orks.

So the default marine troops choice is....orks?!?!?!?!

I don't know. The more i read the book, the more I think I should be painting orks.

Welcome to 5ed

Nothing basically wrong with the ten marine tactical squad, though you should get a special weapon available at the start.

Sure it isnt the hyper efficient Ap2 firing platform it once was, but is a fair price for a fair unit.

I don't know. The more i read the book, the more I think I should be painting orks.

Lol. The new SM codex is neat but building a top tier SM army is still an issue.

I think the biggest problem with the new SM codex is that they are spoiled for choice. It is hard to build a good list because there are so many options.

I think that scouts are at the center of that they are so cheap for small units, but then how effective will that unit be?

No I don't think that scouts are a no brainer/auto choice, but they have a lot going in their favor.

Froggage wrote:I think the biggest problem with the new SM codex is that they are spoiled for choice. It is hard to build a good list because there are so many options.

The advantage about that, is that no one knows what kind of army your going to bring

(enemy player) "Ok... so I know my opponent is marines... so, I'll bring lots of missile launchers, and plasma weapons. WTF?! HE ONLY HAS SCOUTS?!"

And I don't think that having a lot of choices makes it any harder to make a good build, in fact, the more choices you have usually means that there are more good builds to be had

Rock/Paper/Scissors + Unknown Enemy = No "Unbeatable" List

I think that is the theme for 5th edition: if you build an army ready for anything, then you will loose to horde and mech... better to pick one or the other yourself.

I don't know about that. The new space Marine book seems pretty good at both.

Tactical squads with flamers/Lascannon? Combat squad them for objective games?

Borrowing on my idea for a Chaos force (Which consists of a 6 man Noise Marine w/Blastmaster to hold home field objectives) and several Rhino-bourne squads to take objectings).

1 Squad w/Sniper Rifles, Camoline, and a heavy bolter might be an effective, yet cheap home objective holder.

I think they are useful in their way (especially the 6-man Stealth + HB + Sniper objective holder) but they are not a game winner. That said, 'Scout-spam' is probably as useful as any other spamming tactic.

But they are worth their points. They would lose to SM in close combat, though.

Well, I see three useful configurations of Scout units.
small Scout unit with sniper rifles and camoline, small Scout unit in Landspeeder or large Scout unit led by Sergeant with power fist both flanking the opponent and disrupting enemy plans.

Somewhere else someone had the good idea of combat squading into a unit with the heavy weapon and sniper rifles, and another unit with a special close combat weapon to go hunting in a Land Speeder Storm.

Scouts are awsome for holding your back objective while still pumping out shots at 36".

Other then that.. Orks are good but Landraiders are better.