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I thought I'd try my hand at a Vulkan He'Stan list, as they're kind of en vogue, and I frankly think it would be a hell of alot of fun to run. I went mechanized with mine, as it seems to me that an army that plays the short game needs some way to get there, or to keep up with anyone who could normally just dictate the range of the match for them.

HQ
Vulkan He'stan 190

Elite
5 terminators - thunder hammers/storm shields 200
Ironclad Dreadnaught - heavy flamer, heavy flamer 150
Drop Pod - Deathwind Launcher 55

Troops
10-man Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Multi-melta, combi-flamer 185
Rhino - Extra Armour, Storm Bolter 60
10-man Tactical Squad - Meltagun, multi-melta, combi-flamer 185
Rhino - Exta Armour, Storm Bolter 60
10-man Tactical Squad - Meltagun, multi-melta, combi-flamer 185
Rhino - Exta Armour, Storm Bolter 60

Fast Attack
Land Speeder - Heavy Flamer 50
Land Speeder - Heavy Flamer 50
Land Speeder - Multi-melta 60

Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-Melta, Extra Armor 265


The general intention was as follows:
-LRR leads rhinos, breaking off for objectives etc. (typical mech SM procedure, blah blah)
-3 speeders are all about being up in the face of the opponent, particularly shooty ones and let the flamer speeder duo eat anything in cover alive. The melta speeder's basically a melta-torpedo, I don't expect to ever see him again after eating some poor fire prism/demolisher/whirlwind for lunch.
-the dreadnought is there for first turn in-your-face walker shenanigans, doing the ole "1st turn deep strike double TL-flamer+deathwind launcher" song and dance. Will also be very good at keeping anti-tank fire off my rhinos, though obviously he's melta bait dropping so close.
-LRR eats hordes/anything I don't want the termies getting tied with, while Vulkan+termies go on a baddie-smashing mission (I'm looking at you Greater Daemons, Carnifexes, other terminators, and so on) The bigger target I can sink their 15 MC TH shots +Vulkan's 4 relic blade attacks into, the better. Oh, and I guess they have a TL heavy flamer and 2+/3++ saves too, if that means anything to anyone.


I'm not completely sold on the Land Speeders, as they're the weak link out the gate, and will get shot up. Maybe deep strikes may be the way to go. Maybe some bikers? I'm not sure I have the proper melta/flamer ratios in this list.... Also, I'm worried that for their points, the Tactical squads aren't going to deliver much either. Though I'm a target purist, I can't stand versatile units If they're trying to do more than one job, they're gonna do both badly! but that's just me.


So? Thoughts on my flavour of the month Sallies build?

Hmm...
I may be getting the wrong vibe, but it feels like you're taking the popular "Salamanders" concept and messing with it just for renovation's sake.

Now, I don't think this list is bad, but I definitely think it could be better. It needs more focus; just because THs become master-crafted doesn't mean you have to try and squeeze an Assault Terminator squad in, really. My take on "Salamanders" would be to max out your flamers and heavy flamers instead, and then multi-meltas and meltas... MAYBE. I was never a huge fan of the list fundamentally though... it's an overrated concept, and an underwhelming tabletop presence.

Well, BurningStar is right. The army lacks focus. I'd drop the Landspeeders. They are are more a liability.

For instance, three Rhinos accompanied by three Iron Clads would be a possibility, or three drop podded Tacticals and three drop podded Iron Clads.

I think you could add a little Stelek to that list if you wanted to. Taking a big squad of Sternguard (or three) with combimeltas isn't a terrible idea when they're going to be twin linked. That and some Ironclads in Pods makes good sense if you wanted a solid pod core to the list.

I'm ok with the assault termies in LR personally. You just need to make sure they have a defined role in the final list - as mentioned above they shouldn't be taken simply because they get re-rolls with the THs.

A lot depends on how much spam you like in your lists. You're mostly going to be better off spamming it up, but not everyone likes to build their lists like that. If you're set on doing a mech list you might be better off going to the Razorback route, rather than Rhinos. You'll get better use out of your heavy weapons that way.

Look,


Who taught you how to make A LIST?

At 2000 points this list is NOT going to cut it. Drop the land raider, the landspeeders, the terminators and the rhinos. Get simple!

6 squads of 10 space marines with flamers and multimeltas AND POWER FISTS, all in drop pods. Beautiful! You have guns to whack tanks and flamers for hordes and power fists for CC power and the whole thing comes down where you want it with your HQ's boost means the special weapons rerolls get maxed out. You don't need landspeeder mobility when you can choose your landing zone with drop pods.

Six max squads of marines are hefty when they have power fists to deal with serious things.

For support drop in three of the cheapest normal dreadnaughts, so that you basically have an extremely hefty CC army. Vulcan Hefstan is one hell of a CC HQ in himself, with another six power fists in squads and three dreads running support I think you have a winning list. If you don't get to CC you have nine multi meltas and 6 flamers, that's PLENTY.

Take a master of the forge with his conversion beamer as the other HQ if you must so that you can get up to six dreads, all in drop pods.

God knows how you can afford to BUY six dreads and 12 drop pods, make them from cardboard if you have to, Can you imagine the whole board dominated by your drop pods??? Hee Hee Hee! If they don't kill them, the crazy pods can also continue to kill the enemy, so that is a bonus, as well as you having bring your own LOS blocking terrain with you!

THAT is 2000 points of pain for the other guy.

2000 points is a lot, so take a lot of cheap things (marines, minimal dreads) and use the drop pods flexibility to control the battle totally.

OTG

At 1500 points the new codex is not really overpowering.
It is too hard to get enough models on the table, because of the cost of transports and HQ.

But at 2000 points and using all drop pods it becomes EXTREMELY STRONG. The extra 500 points is worth 30 more marines, or four dreadnaughts. At 2000 Space marines now have about the best list you can field.

The ability to bring the entire army on from reserve and concentrate the "killing blow" where you need it is awesome.

And NEVER underestimate the damage six dreadnaughts in drop pods can do. By themeselves they will ravage so many lists.

OTG

well, I do appreciate the insinuations about my character, and the suggestions that I toss out the theme of the list in favour of something completely different

It's good to finally know that when people talk about an army's "focus" they actually mean it's ability to field as much of the same model as possible for maximum staleness

All silliness aside, I rather like armies with a little utility, different units with different, complimentary capabilities. Seems ineffective to deal with every problem with the exact same unit(s). That's just me, it's why I don't see myself running any "as many of one particular thing as you can fit in a force org chart" armies anytime soon.

Fenris: The sternguard were one of the thoughts for this army, for sure. they'd be in 100% if I had gone the drop pod route, but I just wasn't interested in a drop pod list for these guys. And I like the assault termies, myself. They fill the gap in this army between "oh god kill it with flamers (horde with bad saves)" and "pew pew melta doom. enjoy.(tough, but not particularly numerous things, like MCs and tanks)", and I can preemptively sic them on anything that's going to devastate my relatively frail tac squads in CC.

Sorry for being rude.

Is there anything that dreadnaughts and tooled up marines can't handle?

The difference between Rhinos and drop pods is that rhinos start on board, so if the other guy drops or infiltrates by deep striking in your rear they are more easily shot up.

A marine and dreadnaught list is not stale. There is always the fun of seeing how many squads can gang up on one opponent unit.

Deployment flexibility and concentration of numbers at the fight.

The Defenestrator wrote:Fenris: The sternguard were one of the thoughts for this army, for sure. they'd be in 100% if I had gone the drop pod route, but I just wasn't interested in a drop pod list for these guys. And I like the assault termies, myself. They fill the gap in this army between "oh god kill it with flamers (horde with bad saves)" and "pew pew melta doom. enjoy.(tough, but not particularly numerous things, like MCs and tanks)", and I can preemptively sic them on anything that's going to devastate my relatively frail tac squads in CC.

I brought it up because Sallies are the marine list that i think I'm going to do as well, and a mech list was what I was looking at. I wasn't really suggesting that you dump the mech theme either, as that's sort of counter productive when you've asked for advice about your mech list. One of the swing spots in my mech concept is the switch to 3 drop pods from 1. I'm definitely going to take one twin HF Ironclad in a pod, but i'm also considering adding at least one Sternguard unit in a pod as well ('cause their hot). However, once you add that unit you might as well add a third drop pod with a Tac Squad, just so the Sternguard and Ironclad come in together on turn one. At the very least it's worth play testing (I know I will).

You don't mention the Razorbacks in your reply, and I do think you should consider the idea. You get more firepower and better division of duties for your Tac-based heavy weapons. My initial thought would be to run them as base twin-HB, mostly to conserve points. Looking at your Tac Squad loadout I'd also be tempted to specialize at least one of them just a touch by going flamer, combi-flamer (and possib;ly adding a fist in one of the other squads). Not a huge deal either way though. If you decide to go with razorbacks you might want to also consider a Las Cannon or two in place of the multi-meltas, strictly to increase the range.

Obviously their are more effective builds you could do with more spam, but that doesn't seem like that's what either of us are after for the basic build. I generally save the spam for Adepticon and tournaments like it, and leave my basic loadout more balanced and soft-score friendly. (Canadian tournaments, meh)

I'm thinking Razorbacks for mine, with a Flamer in the half that goes forward mobile, and the Melta foot slogging it into a mid way defensive position.

For Vulkan, I'm probably going to give him a Sternguard bodyguard that includes a pair of Heavy Flamers.