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HQ-
105 - Marshal
-Power weapon
-Storm sheild

140 - Emp. Champion
- Accept any challenge.

195 - Chaplin grimwaldus

Troops
305
-X10 Initiates
-X10 Neophytes
-Melta gun
-Power fist
-Frag grenade

195
-X10 Initiates
-Melta gun
-Power fist
-Frag Grenades

195
-X10 Initiates
-Melta Gun
-Power fist
-Frag grenades

450
-X10 Initiates
-Melta Gun
-Power fist
-Land raider Cursader

Heavy
165 - Vindicator
-Power of the machine spirit
-xtra armor

1750- exactly

Ok so the chaplin and his 3 cenobyte servitors attach to 20 man squad. The emp. champion goes with 10 man land raider squad. Marshal goes with one 10 man foot sloggin squad, and they bring up the rear ( the marshal is basically for the ld 10). The chaplins squad and the landraier make up the spear head of my army. I play this army very aggresivly. always moving towards the enamy always trying to charge. The rightious zeal move allows me to get the charge 8 out of 10 times. tell me what you think. if you would change something tell me what you would drop out to get the points.

Give the Marshal an Iron Halo and Bolt Pistol in place of the Storm Shield. You pay 16 extra points for a 4th Attach in Assault and a 4+ Invulnerable that works all the time.

Having one big fat squad running around on the ground isn't the smartest idea in the world. It will get lit up by AP fire. The 10-man units will be ignored until the 20-man is owned, and then they'll die.

Your choices aren't bad per se, but since there's little to no redundancy, and there's no supporting units, you're looking at a streak of losses. Trust me, I've tried the Initiate-only army -- good on paper (91 Power Armored models will unnerve most people), not so much in practice. It's up to you how you want to field the list, but I would recommend three Crusader Squads with 10 Initiates and almost as many Neophytes each. Stick one HQ in each, and then use the remaining points for Vindicators or Terminators. Something like this:

Marshal w/ Power Weapon, Iron Halo, Bolt Pistol
EC w/ Accept
Grimaldus

Crusader Squad (10/6) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Grimaldus)
Crusader Squad (10/9) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Marshal)
Crusader Squad (10/9) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Emperor's Champion)

Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor
Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor
Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor

* * * * *

1746 Points. Each squad of Crusaders comes to 20 models when you incorporate the HQ units. Each one is an excellent buffer in CC to boot, but be warned that their strength should be concentrated. That's where the three Vindicators come into play. As area denial units, they'll force the enemy to either shuffle into the path of your 60 Templars, or suffer the wrath of three Str10 AP2 Ordnance Large Blasts. Their pick.

Hope that helps.

CK

No frag grenades?

What's the point? If the unit that's in cover will beat you because they're in cover, then you shoot them with the Vindicators.

CK

That triple vindicator list looks familiar. Very deadly and quite strong.

Stuff in orange, you know the drill.

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Give the Marshal an Iron Halo and Bolt Pistol in place of the Storm Shield. You pay 16 extra points for a 4th Attach in Assault and a 4+ Invulnerable that works all the time.

Since it's 3x squads, and 3x IC's, why not go another chap+3x Cerobytes? It's faster, comes with the 4+ save, cheaper for a 5A chap then a 5A marshal with IRon Halo, not counting Cerobytes. Since you don't need rites of battle, the auto-pass of RZ and the +3" seems like a better deal, for your list. His, the marshal is actually useful.

Having one big fat squad running around on the ground isn't the smartest idea in the world. It will get lit up by AP fire. The 10-man units will be ignored until the 20-man is owned, and then they'll die.

Very right, very correct, heed this advice.

Your choices aren't bad per se, but since there's little to no redundancy, and there's no supporting units, you're looking at a streak of losses. Trust me, I've tried the Initiate-only army -- good on paper (91 Power Armored models will unnerve most people), not so much in practice. It's up to you how you want to field the list, but I would recommend three Crusader Squads with 10 Initiates and almost as many Neophytes each. Stick one HQ in each, and then use the remaining points for Vindicators or Terminators. Something like this:

Vindi's>Terminators, nothing says like "these 24" are mine" like a demolisher cannon.

Marshal w/ Power Weapon, Iron Halo, Bolt Pistol

Replace with 3x Cerobyte chap, see reasons above.

EC w/ Accept
Grimaldus

Crusader Squad (10/6) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Grimaldus)
Crusader Squad (10/9) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Marshal)
Crusader Squad (10/9) w/ PF, Meltagun (+Emperor's Champion)

Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor
Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor
Vindicator w/ POMS, Smoke, Extra Armor

What's with the extra armor? You're moving straight ahead anyway, and Machine Spirit does not disallow a directional pivot for firing purposes, so I don't see the point in it.

* * * * *

1746 Points. Each squad of Crusaders comes to 20 models when you incorporate the HQ units. Each one is an excellent buffer in CC to boot, but be warned that their strength should be concentrated. That's where the three Vindicators come into play. As area denial units, they'll force the enemy to either shuffle into the path of your 60 Templars, or suffer the wrath of three Str10 AP2 Ordnance Large Blasts. Their pick.

Hope that helps.

CK

Thanks for the responces. Let me describe the tactics that I have used so far and then please critique them as well. I use the large 20 man squad to do just esactly what you said, suck up fire. I use the neophytes to take wounds, and try and use common sence when applying wounds to the different models to try and prolong the squads existance. I advance that squad in the same flank with the land raider (Emp champ, and 10 man) moving six and firing, until I can move 12 and charge. I deploy the vindicator somewhere between the flanks, favoring either side depending on (terrain, opponents army, ect.) The other flank is the other two man squads and the marshal. My stratagy on the marshal is first off that I wanted one to get the ld 10 on all my rightous zeal moves, I know its only a few more made tests, but it's worth it to be able to always stay agressive. I chose the power weapon over a thunder hammer due to both points, and that he is attached to a squad with a power fist. The storm sheild is to get him a invulne in CC, because as long as I stay agressive, moving as far as possable I can usually get to combat, before he has to make any saves. Plus due to, as you said the tendancy of the 20 man to get shot at most, he and at least some of his 10 man have at least so far always make combat. The 2 ten man squads always run, until they are with in range of the bolt pistols and melta guns. So far I have played 4 games with this list, as it stands, and I lost my first, against a very tough gun line tau army, then won against an ork army (not sush a good list), won agaist a tyrnid army, (have to say charging tyrnids is fun) good list, but he was about 100 points short of 1750, and won agaist the same tau list I lost to in the first game (scenario favored me slightly, and it was close). Please let me know what army's you think I will struggle against the most, and what other changes you may suggest in my list/tactics. I should add that I always choose to go first if I can, and almost always deploy as far forward as I can if I am going first.