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Made in us
Guarding Guardian




Baltimore, MD

The following list is one I've been thinking about building up. I have some of the major pieces for this but was looking to flesh out what I have based on my play style. Without further ado...

HQ
Farseer with Singing Spear/Runes of Witnessing/Spirit Stones/Doom/Guide

Jain Zar Phoenix Lord (Howling Banshee Aspect)

ELITE
Fire Dragaons x 5
Fire Dragon Exarch with Firepike/Tank Hunters

Howling Banshees x 5

TROOP
Guardian Defenders x 14 with Starcannon

Guardian Defenders x 14 with Starcannon

Ranger Pathfinders x 5

FAST ATTACK
Shining Spears x 4
Shining Spear Exarch with Star Lance

Vyper with Bright Lance

Vyper with Bright Lance

Heavy Support
Falcon with ShuriCannon/Holofield/Spiritstones

Falcon with ShuriCannon/Holofield/Spiritstones

Fire Prism

If I've done the math correctly, this should come out to 1750 points on the dot. Any suggestions or tweaks you guys can come up with would be greatly appreciated. I haven't been playing 1750 pt games, mostly 1000pt. So it feels like a jump with that many units to throw in there, but I think I've got this close to being a balanced force. I know that its a tad week on CC, but I was hoping to use my Banshees and Spears as clean-up units rather than frontal assault units. With the main focus being on shooty death. Thanks.

-edited for spelling mistakes-

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2008/10/06 07:11:06


Jertor20 - Novice Autarch of Biel-tan 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

This list is not going to work.
Minors: Jain Zar is overpriced, Farseer needs roward, Guardians can be cut down to 10 men, Vypers are one hit wonders, FDs don't need an Exarch. Shining Spears need skilled rider and could benefit from an Autarch on jetbike with laserlance.
Majors: The list lacks synergy. If you take 3 HS tanks then add a few Serpents to field a mech list. Or go the footslogging route with hammer and anvil. But the list is neither nor...

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in au
Stormin' Stompa






YO DAKKA DAKKA!

Starcannons are a bit outdated; there are better general choices. Scatters and EMLs in particular, are about as good for light vehicles. EMLs slightly less effective as anti-armour though, due to BS 3 and lack of Guide.

You expecting a lot of marines? Starcannon and Shining Spears are what they're for. If you make the guardians more shooty, and find points to point brightlances on the falcons , the tanks can concentrate vs. armour (3 S8 shots is some of the best you'll get after the fire dragons themselves) after dropping off your banshees / fire dragons (that's what I assume they're doing).

Brightlance vypers are fragile for no upgrades... be careful. I field one, but I have it covered with two scattervypers.

Good luck with your banshees. I've started eldar since 5th ed., and I playtested banshees for a while... couldn't figure out how to get them into a good charging position when mechanised, now that they can be shot easily through cover. Those banshees aren't backed up by anything other than a good charge by your shining spears... your assault targets will be very obvious to the opponent, and they'll react to the threat vs. quite fragile targets.

EDIT: Oh wait, you do have guide.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/06 07:47:40


 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





Los Angeles

jertor20 wrote:HQ
Farseer with Singing Spear/Runes of Witnessing/Spirit Stones/Doom/Guide

Where is this guy going? Right now it looks like the best place for him is in a guardian squad. The problem with that is the fact that guardians are kind of frail and that could lead to problems. On the up side, it is nice that your guardians become leadership 10. You can probably drop the singing sprear (at least if you can spend the points elsewhere) though. The spear gives you one shot at very short range that's a good tank killer. The problem is that the rest of the squad has to shoot at the same target and your guardians are hardly up to the task of tank busting. Lets also not mention the fact that tanks rarely roll up on guardian squads. The spear also has the down side of dropping you from 2 attacks in hand to hand down to 1 (since its 2 handed and keeps you from using your pistol).

Jain Zar Phoenix Lord (Howling Banshee Aspect)

While she's cool and all, she just isn't worth the points that she costs unfortunatly. I use my Jain Zar model as an exarch in my banshee squad. It ends up being a much better buy for the point cost. If you are married to the idea of using her though, you should probably back her up with a full (or nearly so) squad of banshees and put them in a wave serpent. Some minor converting (and possibly some magnets) will turn one of your falcons into a serpent if you are lacking the model.
ELITE
Fire Dragaons x 5
Fire Dragon Exarch with Firepike/Tank Hunters

Fire dragon exarchs are of limited use. They simply don't bring anything to the squad that it doesn't already have. If you are busting tanks, then 6 regular dragons do the job just fine. The fire pike is particularly worthless in that it's only benifit is a little extra range. If you end up in a situation where you can make use of it, you've already messed up big time since it means your dragon squad is out of range to do its job. Tank hunters is also another unless upgrade. The dragons already have an armor penetration of 8+2d6. Upping that to 9+2d6 is hardly necessary or even worth paying points for. Ditch it and save the points. Really, just ditch the exarch completely, put in a 6th dragon and save the rest of the points.

Howling Banshees x 5

This squad needs to be bigger. At this point they can function as a mop up squad, but one turn of being out of hand to hand and they are all the way dead. I never field a squad of less than 8 and I shoot for 10 if I can. A serpent will also do wonders for them. Convert a falcon if you need to.

TROOP
Guardian Defenders x 14 with Starcannon

Guardian Defenders x 14 with Starcannon

Star cannons are not really all that good for guardians. They out perform scatter lasers at shooting 3+ (or 2+) save targets that are out of cover, but the scatter laser takes over (by a fair margine) once they get into cover. 2 shots is just too few for the point cost. I highly recommend switching out to either scatter lasers or missile launchers. It also wouldn't hurt to strip a few guys out of the squads if you need some points. If you shave one squad down to 10 men it still provides a good ammount of fire power and saves you some points. If you do start taking guys out though, take them out of one squad before the other. That way you can have a large(r) squad and a small squad. Put your farseer in the large(r) squad.

Ranger Pathfinders x 5

Good choice. Excellent rear objective holders.

FAST ATTACK
Shining Spears x 4
Shining Spear Exarch with Star Lance

I don't like shining spears much because they only have 1 base attack and are really expensive. That aside, you'll have to hide them or just turbo boost around your deployment zone for the first couple of turns to keep these guys from getting murdered right off the bat. Even after that, the will only function as a mop up unit rather than benig able to take anything on themselves. Keep that in mind.

Vyper with Bright Lance

Vyper with Bright Lance

Expensive and kind of frail. They work but you have to be careful with them because if the enemy directs much fire power their way, they go down quickly.

Heavy Support
Falcon with ShuriCannon/Holofield/Spiritstones

Falcon with ShuriCannon/Holofield/Spiritstones

You might want to spend some of those points you saved elsewhere in bumping up the weapons on these things...maybe. Since they are going to spend a good portion of their time being transports for the dragons (and maybe the banshees) you have a couple of options. The first is leaving them with minimal weapons (like they are now) and zooming around shooting the puls laser when you can. The other would be to invest in a missile launcher that you can fire (in plasma mode) as a defensive weapon. This means you would be able to move 12" and still fire all your weapons.

Fire Prism

Good choice. You've also done a smart thing by upgrading the falcons before the prism.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/08 00:35:46


**** Phoenix ****

Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. 
   
Made in us
Guarding Guardian




Baltimore, MD

Thanks for the recommendations guys! I'm going to spend some time tonight retooling the list and try to have an updated copy posted tomorrow.

I'm working to get this hammered out as I've been away from the hobby for about 8 years and am only now trying to jump back in. Which is why i'm also trying to base this off of the models I currently own.

Jertor

Jertor20 - Novice Autarch of Biel-tan 
   
Made in us
Devastating Dark Reaper




Chicago

If you take Vypers, I like to kit them with dual cannons and spirit stones. Reason beings is that if they get blown apart, then you didn't lose too many points on them. With the cannons they are annoying enough that your opponents can't ignore them, but they will also waste rounds of shooting at them.

40k armies:
Fantasy: TK, Dwarfs, VC 
   
Made in us
Guarding Guardian




Baltimore, MD

[edit - I just noticed that I upped the pts to 2000. Not sure what i'd pull to get it back down to 1750]

How's this for a second shot...

HQ
Autarch - LaserLance, AvengerShuricat, Jetbike 122pts

Farseer - SingingSpear, Jetbike, Runes of Witnessing, Spiritstones, Doom, Guide - 163pts

ELITE
Fire Dragons x 6 - 96pts

Howling Banshees x 10 Exarch w/Mirror Swords, Warshout - 307pts
Waveserpent w/EML

TROOPS
Guardian Defenders x 20 w/Scatter Laser - 175pts

Guardian Defenders x 15 w/Scatter Laser - 135pts

Ranger Pathfinders x 10 - 240pts

FAST ATTACK
Vyper x 2 w/ Bright Lance - 150pts

Shining Spears x 5 Exarch w/Star Lance, Withdraw - 227pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon w/ShuriCannon, Holofield - 155pts

Prism x 2 - 230pts

The only groups not mobile now are the troop units. The small unit of guardians can camp objectives, as can the pathfinders. Its a little different cut with similar units, but a little more focused on mobility this time around. Let me know what you guys think. I'd say I've got a good portion of this in hand already, but I'm trying to hammer out where to go with it before I start buying more models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/10/08 01:43:05


Jertor20 - Novice Autarch of Biel-tan 
   
 
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