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@2000

Pedro Kantor

Tac 2x10 w/ flamer, missile launcher
Sarge w/ pf

Tac 1x10 w/ meltagun, multi-melta
Sarge w/ pf & combi-melta
Rhino w/ dozer blade

Lysander

Sternguard 1x10 w/ combi-flamer x2
Drop Pod w/ deathwind

Sternguard 2x10 w/ combi-melta x5
Sarge w/ pf
Drop Pod

Kantor and tac x2 hold objectives in my deployment zone.
Sternguard x2 drop, combat squad to take out armor, secure objectives in enemy deployment zone.
Lysander and sternguard 1x10 drop using bolter drill/deathwind/flamers vs. horde.
Tac in rhino supports either sternguard or covers other tacs.

All units are scoring!

Kantor should be on the front lines. The Tac squads can handle themselves, and Inspiring Presence will make the Sternguard godly in HtH. Lysander is nice for bolter drill, but not completely necessary. I would change the weapon loadouts on the Tac squads if you say they're going to claim your objectives.

Other things that I personally would change are the loadouts on the SG and little nitpicky things, but... that's just me.

Burning Star IV wrote:Kantor should be on the front lines. The Tac squads can handle themselves, and Inspiring Presence will make the Sternguard godly in HtH.

It's a viable option to put Kantor in the pod with the Sternguard. I just like that early orbital bombardment to hit a unit that I would normally not be able to touch. The Sternguard are even more godly in shooting than hth!

Kantor and Lysander in one army? Very unfluffy.
I'd mount all units either in Rhinos or in drop pods.

wuestenfux wrote:Kantor and Lysander in one army? Very unfluffy.

Fluff has very little to do with the way GW is moving forward with their rules design. They've proven that they don't care, and want it to have no effect on gameplay by removing chapter specific characters, allowing mix and match options, and removing rules that were fluff inspired, a la Hunt the Fallen.

You have 2 models plus 60 space marines with boltguns. You need to figure out a way to add umpf to the army as that is not really that great.

Sure you get to shoot at stuff, but any type of army horde or otherwise is going to straight up target those 20 Sternguard and you will be left with 20 tactical marines.

Here is a list off the top of my head of units that will hurt this army.


Space Marine:

Assault Terminators
Assault Squads
Tanks


Eldar:
Again Tanks, Wraithlords (somewhat), Avatar, Warp Spiders, Banshees in a vehicle.

Tau :
They'll overwhelm you in firepower flat out.

Tyranids:

Lictors
Outflanking Genestealers
Biovores making you make saves.

Necrons:
Not alot in your army to stop the Wewill be back
Wraiths
shooty mac shooty Obelisk of gay

Orcs
Look at dem marines choppy choppy

Dark Eldar
Lol no one plays them

Imperial Guard
Pew Pew PEw Pew KABOOOOOM

They can literally assault you to death

Kantor and Lysander in one army? Very unfluffy.
I'd mount all units either in Rhinos or in drop pods.

VERY unfluffy?! I completely disagree. Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists are all descendants of Rogal Dorn. Don't they share similar geneseed? It's not like I was using Kantor and Vulcan. Now that would be "very unfluffy". Besides, the codex reads that you can use the characters to fight alonside one another or even use the character stats to represent a hero in your chapter. So much for fluff, even though IMO the Kantor and Lysander combo leaves me with a warm, fluffy feeling inside.

I agree about the rhino/drop pod decision. I will go all drop by changing the razorback to a pod.

You have 2 models plus 60 space marines with boltguns

True. But those 2 "models" are bad arse and those 30 sternguard are well balanced to handle most, if not all of those units you listed. You should see what this list does to necrons when I drop in splitting their army in half and opening up with vengeance rounds. The "Obelisk of gay" is still formidable, though I have been able to phase out my necron opponents consistently. The sternguard seem to be doing well in hth vs. the 'crons, and the Tau, and the guard. It's not easy, but it seems to be working so far. I will be getting some battles with orks, as I agree with you that it will test my list. I may have to find points for more deathwind and/or combi-flamers.

Sadly, Hollismason, you forgot the one unit that would hurt the strength of this list the most, Inquisitors with mystics!

Given the shared primarch, I feel it's perfectly acceptable for lysander's Rules to represent, say, captain of the 1st company for Crimson Fists. It becomes more beleivable if the "lysander" (or cantor) is painted according to the army they are in, ie. a blue lysander, or yellow cantor. I find nothing wrong with that.

Besides, the new special SM characters are meant to be taken as counts as for homegrown chapters.

Played in a 1750 tourneythis weekend and finished second in battle points.

DORNSFISTS KANTOR STERNGUARD

Pedro Kantor
Darnath Lysander

Sternguard 1x10
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Sternguard 1x10 w/ combi-meltas x5
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Sternguard 1x10 w/ combi-meltas x5
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Tac 1x10 w/ flamer, missile launcher
Drop Pod w/ storm bolter

Tac 1x10 w/ flamer, missile launcher
Drop Pod w/ storm bolter


Combat squading the sternguard with meltas on the drop is proving consistently effective. Basically, two of the opponent's vehicles are going down. Even if the meltas fail, the krak grenades finish the job.

The missile launchers are proving ineffective, but I have been rolling a lot of these to hit or for armor pen.

Lysander is sick, re-rolling those vengance dice is saving sternguard from get's hot.

I have not figured out Pedro, yet. He has done well sitting back using his orbital bombardment, but I feel that he needs to be dropping with the sternguard to give inspired presence.

I am going to stick with this list, as it is performing well. I have not felt the need to switch Lysander with a librarian for the effective gate strategy. If I can get the models painted, it will see the GT in Baltimore.

Well, the list lacks power fists against melee oriented units.

True. Fortunately, when those sternguard drop and rapid fire , the remainder of their target is crippled making the ensuing hth managable thus far.

I had the powerfists in the original list, there were times when they were sorely missed, but Pedro and Lysander responded valiantly.

One upgrade I was originally skeptical about was the deathwind launchers. Those 3 on the sternguard pods proved their mandatory inclusion in any future list for me.

Lysander doesn't come standard with Terminator armor?

yeh he does, i think.

Not to be a lawyer but....

I do not believe Lysander's "bolter drill" applies to yourSternguard. That is just for "bolters, heavy bolters and bolt pistols. It does not mention "combi-bolters." I know it's very RAW but....

ender502

Hmmm...

There certainly is a 'bolter' component to a 'combi-bolter', and once you've fired off the 'combi' part, all you are left with is a 'bolter'.

Not sure, but it looks as if the rule should apply to combi-bolters.

Alpharius-

My heart wants to say you're right.... The entry for sternguard says replace boltgun with...storm, combi, etc...

I think the intent is for the rule to apply to combi's as well but I am not so sure about the RAW of it.

ender502

Well, by RAW you're probably right, but I think that most people will not stop it from working with Combi-Bolters, especially as it won't be coming up all that often...

Perhaps reading the wargear entry for combi-bolters out of the relevant book would help clear up why Lysander's bolter drills works on combi-bolters.

Codex: SM, pg. 97
"Combi-weapons are bolters..."
"A Space Marine armed with a combi-weapon ... can choose to fire either the bolter, or the secondary weapon..."

Seems to clear it up nicely.

EDITED BY MODQUISITION: Ender argue the point, not the person please.

lord_sutekh wrote:Codex: SM, pg. 97
"Combi-weapons are bolters..."
"A Space Marine armed with a combi-weapon ... can choose to fire either the bolter, or the secondary weapon..."

Seems to clear it up nicely.

Sutekh, thanks for the clarification. I didn't have the book and was working from memory. Personally, I am glad it works. Lysander just got way better and more fluffy.

ender502

I don't think he's being a tool; I think he's just trying to encourage people to read the relevant entries before making claims that have no basis or asking questions they could answer on their own. Everyone has their own style.

Did anyone read the rulebook before posting this question or answering?

Page 97. SM Codex.

Combi-weapons are bolters...

It's even in the Sternguard description.

P 63.

...including boltguns that are part of combi-weapons...

Answer: No.

:S

How are the Librarian/sternguard combos working out, Stelek?

Haven't had a chance to play them against the regulars at my FLGS yet.

So just months of playtesting lol, I don't think they are any less effective.

Tired of proxy'ing my legion of the damned in for them anyway, but I hope the new army will be ready soon(ish), so I can run my legion army.

DORNSFISTS KANTOR STERNGUARD

Pedro Kantor
Darnath Lysander

Sternguard 1x10
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Sternguard 1x10 w/ combi-meltas x5
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Sternguard 1x10 w/ combi-meltas x5
Drop Pod w/ deathwind missile launcher

Tac 1x10 w/ flamer, missile launcher
Drop Pod w/ storm bolter

Tac 1x10 w/ flamer, missile launcher
Drop Pod w/ storm bolter


Got any advice on tweaking this list for the GT? I have 260 points tied up in Lysander and deathwind. I have been thinking about spreading the wealth with more combi-meltas for the sternguard, giving 4-5 to the squad with none.

I'm also toying with the idea of going with 3 whirlwinds for Lysander and the deathwind. I don't think I can hide them on a GT table.

Got any advice on tweaking this list for the GT? I have 260 points tied up in Lysander and deathwind. I have been thinking about spreading the wealth with more combi-meltas for the sternguard, giving 4-5 to the squad with none.

I'm also toying with the idea of going with 3 whirlwinds for Lysander and the deathwind. I don't think I can hide them on a GT table.

I'd drop Lysander in the first place.
You are right about GT tables at which area terrain is usually very sparse.

How do you replace him? He provides hth support for sternguard, plus bolter drill for one squad. Also, the hammer is strength 10 and adds 1 to damage chart vs. vehicles.

This could replace the hth:
Captain w/ relic blade, artificer armor, combi-flamer, melta bombs, auxiliary grenade launcher, digital weapons

OR

Cato Sicarius

OR

Vanguard 1x5 w/ jump packs, pf x1

This could provide fire support:
LS Typhoon x2

OR

Whirlwind x2

OR

Pred x2 w/ lascannon sponsons

Got any advice on tweaking this list for the GT? I have 260 points tied up in Lysander and deathwind. I have been thinking about spreading the wealth with more combi-meltas for the sternguard, giving 4-5 to the squad with none.

Yes, 5 combi-meltas for each Sternguard squad would be nice. I'd drop Lysander and add a Librarian with nullzone and gate of infinity. Psykers are very popular at GT's.
This leaves you with another 160 pts that could be spent by adding a squadron of Landspeeders with multimeltas.

How about that smite to go with the sternguard rapid-fire range? Or the Avenger for some flamer template anti-horde action? I want to keep them shooty.

The nullzone seems like it would be of specific use versus demon lists.