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This is pretty much what won me the first round, just wondering if anyone had any ideas.

HQ - 303
Prince Yrial [155]

Farseer - 55, doom 25, guide 20, spirit stones 20, Singing Spear 3, Runes of Witnessing 10, Runes of Warding 15. [148]

Elites - 645
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, star cannons 35, spirit stones 10. [135]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 80, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 641
Guardians X 10 – 80, Bright Lance 30 [110]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Bright Lances 45, spirit stones 10. [145]

Dire Avengers X 6 – 72, Exarch 12, Shimmer Shield 15, Defend 15 [114]

Pathfinder X 5 [120]

Fast Attack - 355
Warp Spiders X 8 – 176, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [218]

Swooping Hawks X 5 – 105, Exarch 12, Sunrifle 15, Intercept 5 [137]

Heavy Support - 552
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Missile Launcher 10, Fast Shot 20. [217]

Falcon 115, star cannon 25, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [195]

Wraithlord – 90, Wraith Sword 10, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [140]

Tactics: The Guardians hold a mid / rear objective, their bright lance guided by the farseer to take down tanks. The Wraithlord stays within 6" and adds redundancy if the guardians miss as well as acting as a close combat reactionary body guard. If a tank gets close the farseer leaves the unit, pops the tank with his singing spear and then guides the guardians and dooms the transported unit so the catapults can do their job to best effect with the wraithlond finishing off survivors. The pathfinders hold another objective, pinning / killing as they can. The dark reapers and small dire avengers squad sit on the home objective, killing at range with the avengers shooting and charging anything that gets to close. The scorpions out-flank, taking out far objective holders and support units such as devastator squards and whirlwinds. Spiders drop in behind enemy lines, busting tanks and infantry as necessary. Hawks do the same, using their many shots to take out screening units and their grenades on tanks when all else fails. Large avenger squad flies up with Yriel deploying to the other side of the waves serpent, with the bright lance opening transports, then bladestorming the unit. The Spear of twilight takes out the tank if the bright lance fails. If anything survives the shooting, Yriel charges whoever is left. On the next turn the avengers get in and repeat, eventually taking a far objective. The Falcon slowly advances, firing all 3 weapons at heavy infantry or tanks. The dragons go after heavy tanks or terminators or the like, with the banshees charging into whatever pops out after their wave serpent shoots into the same unit.

I think you have a very colorful and dynamic list, but I fear there's a bit too much generality. It seems like there's not enough of each element. The prince, the hawks, and the wraithlord all seem redundant and unnecessary, and I think there's more effective things you could be taking instead, or even just increasing squad sizes or duplicating some.

A few notes -
Drop the Hawks, trade in the Farseer for Eldrad (especially for the re-deployment power).

Drop the Wraithlord, pick up another Falcon and stuff in the odd unit of Avengers.

Put EML's on all Falcons and Serpents for some flexibility, horde control (don't forget they also pin) and full movement firing. For popping the odd LR you already have a pack of Dragons.

Use the remaining points to beef up your Dragons, Spiders, Reapers (add Tempest and Crack Shot!), or Pathfinders, or add a Lock to your Guardians.

That should give your army the "Hammer and Anvil" effect. Right now you have a coherency all over the map...fast skimmer attack, slow slogging attack, random drop attack, and static defense. Try to reduce the army to just one or two of those concepts to get everything to work well together.

The list is a little bit of everything. The army lacks focus. You need strong anti-tank, anti-MEQ, and anti-horde components.

PolecatEZ wrote:A few notes -
Drop the Hawks, trade in the Farseer for Eldrad (especially for the re-deployment power).

Drop the Wraithlord, pick up another Falcon and stuff in the odd unit of Avengers.

Put EML's on all Falcons and Serpents for some flexibility, horde control (don't forget they also pin) and full movement firing. For popping the odd LR you already have a pack of Dragons.

Use the remaining points to beef up your Dragons, Spiders, Reapers (add Tempest and Crack Shot!), or Pathfinders, or add a Lock to your Guardians.

That should give your army the "Hammer and Anvil" effect. Right now you have a coherency all over the map...fast skimmer attack, slow slogging attack, random drop attack, and static defense. Try to reduce the army to just one or two of those concepts to get everything to work well together.

Well, here is the army with the suggested changes. Hopefully I will have time to test it before Saturday, otherwise I will probably use the other list as I know it works well and have experience with it. Thanks for the input.

HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 640
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 96, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 658
Guardians X 11 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [118]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Dire Avengers X 6 – 72, Exarch 12, Shimmer Shield 15, Defend 15 [114]

Pathfinder X 5 [120]

Fast Attack – 240
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 597
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Well, I went and tested the list and was pretty happy with it over all. I was up against a force with 4 venerable dreadnaughts in anihilation. I ended up winning but only killed one dreadnaught by the end of the game. The Reapers with the tempest and crack shot was awesome, keeping that for sure. The fire dragons were the real stars though, killing a land raider, a 200 point character and a dreadnaught. I missed having my other bright lances and starcannons though, but I guess against the dreadnaughts the missile launchers are the same, but killing marines is a bit slower. I think in that particular game though the dreadnaught would have been a better call, as I did not have anything that could face the dreadnaughts in hand to hand. The scorpions killed a sternguard veteran squad and a scout squad led by tellion all alone and the banshees had their transport shot out from under them early on, leaving them hiding in cover, useless.. Flat out towards the enemy first turn for them next time. Spiders did nothing, shot at a dreadnaught in the back, but venerable kept it safe from all but one lost melta. Not sure how much the hawks would have helped, but the haywire grenades could have helped. I love Eldrad, Eldricth storm can do some great damage to vehicles by exposing their rears and guiding two squads a round is great. Guardinans with him within 6" of the reapers make for a great fire base.
Though, as I said, some elements from the original list might have been better. I thought of some mods to the list and came up with a few alternatives, was wondering which of these four you guys would run? Or if you were to modify / combine any of these lists, how would you do it?

HQ - 303
Prince Yrial [155]

Farseer - 55, doom 25, guide 20, spirit stones 20, Singing Spear 3, Runes of Witnessing 10, Runes of Warding 15. [148]

Elites - 645
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, star cannons 35, spirit stones 10. [135]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 80, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 641
Guardians X 10 – 80, Bright Lance 30 [110]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Bright Lances 45, spirit stones 10. [145]

Dire Avengers X 6 – 72, Exarch 12, Shimmer Shield 15, Defend 15 [114]

Pathfinder X 5 [120]

Fast Attack - 355
Warp Spiders X 8 – 176, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [218]

Swooping Hawks X 5 – 105, Exarch 12, Sunrifle 15, Intercept 5 [137]

Heavy Support - 552
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Falcon 115, star cannon 25, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [195]

Wraithlord – 90, Wraith Sword 10, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [140]

Army 2
HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 640
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 96, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 826
Guardians X 11 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [118]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Pathfinder X 6 [144]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 407
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Army 3
HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 640
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 96, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 634
Guardians X 11 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [118]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Dire Avengers X 6 – 72, Exarch 12, Shimmer Shield 15, Defend 15 [114]

Pathfinder X 5 [120]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 597
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Army 4
HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 640
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 5 - 96, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [115]

Troops - 656
Guardians X 10 – 80, Bright Lance 30 [110]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, spirit stones 10. [130]

Pathfinder X 6 [144]

Pathfinder X 5 [120]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 577
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Falcon 115, Eldar Missile Launcher 20, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [190]

Fire Prism 115, shuriken cannon 10, holo-fields 35, spirit stones 10. [170]

Well, after doing some thinking and some reading I came up with an altered hybrid list.

HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 805
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 6 - 96, Exarch 12, Fire Pike 8, Tank Hunter 15. [131]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Troops - 694
Guardians X 11 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [118]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 120, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Dire Avengers X 9 – 108, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [140]

Pathfinder X 6 [144]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 372
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Wraithlord – 90, Eldar Missile Launcher 25, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [155]

With this, the 3 wave serpents head up front, supported by the static firepower units. They alternate between crack missiles and plasma missiles as needed, using the shuriken cannon for extra hoarde killing or rear vehicle shooting. Eldrad guides 2 of the 4 fire power units, depending on what I really need dead that turn, throwing in eldritch storm, mind war or doom as needed, hopefully dooming whatever the banshees are about to assault.. The spiders deep strike to kill either vehicles with weak rear armor or support units. The scorpions outflank or infiltrate and get in to root out stuck in opponents and keep my fire power units from getting shot up or assaulted. The wraithlord hunts tanks from afar, as do the guardians with their guided bright lance. The wraithlord also works as a counter-assault unit, making sure the guardians and pathfinders don't get assaulted for their objective. The reapers kill meqs and swarms alike, using crack shot to full effect. The foot-slogging avengers support the other units with their extended range and bladestorm and take late-game objectives, should the forward avengers, who are supporting the banshees, fall. The only changes I was thinking of was perhaps switching the Spiders Rifle for double death spinner. Whats better, the AP 1 pinning shot or 3 more ap - shots at BS 5? Also maybe dropping the dragon Exarch for 2 more squad member? Though that STR 9 9" melta is nice....

With those changes the list looks like this. Each unit is VERY specialised and I have decent terminator killing power. Same tactics as above over all.

HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 803
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 8 - [128]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Troops - 698
Guardians X 10 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [110]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 120, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 120, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]

Pathfinder X 6 [144]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Death Spinner 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 372
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Wraithlord – 90, Eldar Missile Launcher 25, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [155]

Still a bit of everything.
Let Eldrad lead a 10 men Warlock squad, add Fire Dragons in Serpents, Storm Guardians or Dire Avengers in Serpents and Fire Prism. How about this?

wuestenfux wrote:Still a bit of everything.
Let Eldrad lead a 10 men Warlock squad, add Fire Dragons in Serpents, Storm Guardians or Dire Avengers in Serpents and Fire Prism. How about this?

Don't Have the models for the warlocks (Only have 2) and they are over pointed for what they have. Also don't own any storm guardians. Why double up on dragons? With Eldrads power I can re-deploy them to where they are needed. After reading about the fore prism in fifth ed eldar bible I came to think the Wraithlord was better for the points as it can fulfill the same roll and never gets stunned, prism can't shoot half the time. Also I need the wraithlord for its counter-assault capabilities. Only thing I think might be out of place is the Avengers on foot, but I can't think of a better option. A second guardian squad would be at LD 8 and not guided, its not very useful to have more Pathfinders in most cases and jet bikes are vulnerable or VERY expensive. That being said, I COULD replace them with a squad of 6 bikes with 2 shurikan cannons or even split those in half for last turn objective grabbing, but at 8 LD and rarely getting a cover save, I think they would be an easy Kill Point or 2 either way.

Supporting what others have said -
A wraithlord can't evaporate a squad of deepstriking terminators like a fire prism can. And you'd want to only double up on firedragons if both units are in waveserpents, and the reason to double up.... at 2500pts its possible your opponent might bring not one unit of terminators but two, or 3 landraiders, or maybe if your opponent is named Stelek, you'll have to deal with 7LR. Its not a cardinal sin to bring redundant units, and its especially true at 2500pts.
BTW if Yriel, Eldrad, 10 scorpions and 10 banshees aren't enough counter assault, adding a wraithlord won't help :p
The direavengers on foot do seem out of place, if you got another squad of guardians with a brightlance, maybe add those 2 warlocks with embolden and singing spears... just thoughts.. your list is looking much better now.

Well, I updated agian. Seems to me the wraithlord fills the role of body guard for the fire support base, as the rest of the army wants to be up close. Also he adds some much needed heavy weapons that, unlike a fire prism, can always fire. But I see what you mean about the fire-prism against terminators. Kind of a trade off either way. But since most of the time the template scatters 3" and deep striking terminators are in base to base, it seems the doube heavy weapons might work better, though this is from speculation, not experience. The one time I did use my fire prism was against mecha guard and it scattered so bad every time is was useless. I think you are right about the avengers, so I was thinking of the bikers instead. They can keep pace with the rest of the forward moving army or re-enforce the fire line. Have never used them before, but I think they are overall a better choice (at least on paper), especially considering their better saves and toughness and ability to grab objectives other units clear. Although I suppose with 2 guardian squads I could guide them both, better chances to hit then the wraithlod, but only 1 STR 8 shot that way and Eldrad can only give his LD to one unit at a time. Then again, the bright lance might live longer under concetrated fire, unless, of course, the guardians break....

HQ - 365
Prince Yrial [155]

Eldrad Ulthran - 210

Elites - 803
Howling Banshees X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Executioner 10, War Shout 5, Acrobatic 5. [193]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Striking Scorpions X 10 - 160, Exarch 12, Biting Blade 5, stalker 5, Shadow Strike 20. [202]

Fire Dragons X 8 - [128]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Troops - 698
Guardians X 10 – 88, Bright Lance 30 [110]

Dire Avengers X 10 – 120, Exarch 12, Shuriken Catapult 5, Bladestorm 15. [152]
Wave Serpent 90, Missile Launcher 30, Shuriken Cannon 10, spirit stones 10. [140]

Guardian Jetbike Squad X 6 – 132, Shuriken Cannon X 2 20. [152]

Pathfinder X 6 [144]

Fast Attack – 262
Warp Spiders X 10 – 220, Exarch 12, Spinneret rifle (or maybe double death spinner?) 5, Power Blades 10,Withdraw 15. [262]

Heavy Support - 372
Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Wraithlord – 90, Eldar Missile Launcher 25, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [155]

Dark Reapers X 5 – 175, Exarch 12, Crack Shot 10, Tempest Launcher 20. [217]

Wraithlord – 90, Eldar Missile Launcher 25, Bright Lance 40, Twin Linked Flamers. [155]

I'd bring 3 Fire Prisms for 345 pts, eventually adding stones.