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What would you say the optimal space marine HQ would be in a balanced army?

I'm thinking either

Chapter Master, Relic Blade, Artificer Armour, Storm Bolter, Aux Grenade Launcher

or

Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, Hellfire Rounds, Aux Grenade Launcher, Storm Shield

Do you guys reckon auxiliary grenade launchers are worth the cost?

Its hard to say as it depends on the rest of the army.
The special characters are very popular these days since they offer specific combat tactics.

Well, would stubborn from Pedro Cantor outweigh the utility of normal Combat Tactics?

I was looking over them last night (I skipped the special characters) and came to the following conclusions.

Captain is a great base character, and can make a useful counter assault unit, My favorite layout so far is the relic blade + storm bolter.

He also makes the command squad available, which is an amazing unit with 3+ saves and FNP, but will struggle with anything designed to take out that 3+ save as power weapons or AP1/2 denies FNP, Either kit them out as assaulters which can become very expensive very quick, or for some fun close range fire support slap on 5(or 4 if you read apothecary as not being able to get upgrades) storm bolters or flamers.

Chapter Master is paying 25 points more for a single shot S10 AP1 pie plate. which seems okay to me, maybe a bit steep. But I would generally prefer the captain simply because I don't like honour guard, 5 of them are allmost as much as 5 terminators, but they don't have an inv save, and are pretty equally geared IMO.

The Librarian is a nice versatile unit when viewed in the army list, but once you pick him you are giving him a role he will be relatively stuck in with only two powers. I wouldn't bother taking him without the epistolary upgrade because it increases his power so much.

some thoughts are null zone with sternguard to take advantage of thier high AP shots against things with inv saves, same works with a squad full of power weapons. I like all his shooting attacks too each has it's own use, the high str template of vortex, works for tanks and groups of inf but is a bit risky, smites 4 AP2 shots seem like great hero killers, while the avenger is like having a Land Raider Redeemer's Volcano Cannon on an inf model.

The chaplain didn't particularly impress me, so I kinda gave it a skip.

The final HQ is the Master of the Forge, and I could only see 1 way that I would use it, with a conversion beamer and a bike, it breaks even roughly with the captain and librarian, and offers a reliable S8 AP4 blast and a probably easily obtained S10 AP1 blast which you can fire while moving 12" a turn, no inv save but a nice 2+ armour save, so you may want to try and keep plenty of cover around him to keep him alive. And just for kicks you get to jack up a ruins cover save so your scouts will love him.

Chapter Master w/ terminator armor, thunder hammer, storm shield.

Currently I am running with a Libby and Cassius as my HQ choices, with a Techmarine with full-harness for fire and assault support. These three guys basically walk along behind/in my flamer based combat sqauds who broke off from the three 10 man tacs I have in the army. So far it has been working great advancing on key positions with 4 flamers(+1 if I use Cassius combi flamer) as well as the libby sniping heavily armoured units(smite AP2), cassius snipping high toughness units (infernus wounds on 2+) and the marines double tapping to their hearts content.

Basically I find my 2 HQ choices really fit in with the style of army that I have, but at the same time this selection can probably fit in with most peoples armies and be just as effective.

Basically I find my 2 HQ choices really fit in with the style of army that I have, but at the same time this selection can probably fit in with most peoples armies and be just as effective.

What army size? In smaller pt games, 1500 pts or less, a single HQ should suffice.

Actually it is in my a tournament 1500 pt army.

My army has a lack of assault troops, instead its built around more of a skirmish force. Great at short range combat, with a few long range support units (Tellion and snipers, 4 ML Devs). I also have a Drop pod(with rockets) deploying a Dread into the enemy flank/rear/vulnerable spot and a Vindicator and Razorback moving up along the flank of the skirmish force. The army tends to have a shot at winning any match up on any table with any Tourny mission that gets thrown their way. But the flexibility comes at the cost of the fact that you really need to know the plan and your opponents plan before the models hit the board. Generally I hit around third (1st to 5th) place in every tournament I go too with this type of skirmsh flexible army (in the past). We'll see how it pans out with the new dex in 5th starting next weekend(First tourny since new dex).


I'm really looking forward to playing again since there seems to be a lot more options that will work within this context of an army now and how I always envisioned the marines acting, since they are supposed to be a in your face strike force used in any situation.

I'm actually really liking the Master of the Forge. He gets 2 power fist attacks, 1 flamer template shooting attack, 1 twin-linked plasma pistol attack, and 2-3 melee attacks with a 2+ armor save base.

Toss in a power weapon, and you've got a very shooty, very killy HQ for 115 points. Added to that he can bolster defences and repair vehicles if necessary. The only downside is no invulnerable save.

He also fits in very well with my Iron Hands army.

I agree completely, hence the reason why I have at least the tech marine with full harness in my army even when my two HQ choices get filled with something else. I've been using the tech marine ever since his fourth edition incarnation as a great, flexible support unit that my enemy generally over looks until he does some serious damage. And with the new options available to the Master of the Forge I may start using him instead of my tried and true elite slot tech marine. But I wanted to get a few tournies out of the way with the new 'dex before I make that decision.

Man, sometimes I wish I wasnt running Wolves so I could test drive the new Veterans. I want to so bad >=I

Oh well, I am still happy playing the Wolves.

wuestenfux wrote:Chapter Master w/ terminator armor, thunder hammer, storm shield.

Kind of pointless to do this just take Lysander and say he is Joe Bob

Hollismason wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Chapter Master w/ terminator armor, thunder hammer, storm shield.

Kind of pointless to do this just take Lysander and say he is Joe Bob

Only if your army wants to benefit from his combat tactics.

He'Stan and Command Squad with 5 Flamers for Assault. That unit is freaking insane. (And yes the Apoth can take the weapons. It says that in all the other Marine Codex FAQs. And I beleive it was said somewhere else about the new codex too.)

Nothing like Flamers that re-roll to wound when you have 5 of them.

I don't think He'Stan gets a Command Squad.

He'Stan doesn't get a Command Squad. So, you'd have to take him and another Captain to benefit from your tricked-out squad.

Yup. Not only does that leave your psychic butt exposed to the Lash of Submission and other powers, but it leaves your Battle-Brothers without the spiritual guidance of a Chaplain!