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The Legion of Change (2000 points)

The Bluescribes (130)
Herald of Tzeentch – Master of Sorcery, We are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch (95)
Herald of Tzeentch – Master of Sorcery, We are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch (95)
Herald of Tzeentch – Master of Sorcery, We are Legion, Bolt of Tzeentch (95)

3 Flamers (105)
3 Flamers (105)
3 Flamers (105)

9 Horrors – Chaos Icon, Bolt of Tzeentch (188)
9 Horrors – Chaos Icon, Bolt of Tzeentch (188)
9 Horrors – The Changeling, Bolt of Tzeentch (168)
5 Horrors – Bolt of Tzeentch (95)
5 Horrors – Bolt of Tzeentch (95)

4 Screamers (48)

Soul Grinder – Phlegm (160)
Soul Grinder – Phlegm (160)
Soul Grinder – Phlegm (160)

1992 points
57 models

*Just edited the list to include a unit of Screamers. I am thinking about possibly including another one as it has been brought to my attention that I have no other way of penetrating AV14. Besides, I should be compelled to take them as it's a mono-Tzeentch list. I was thinking about taking Tongue for all the SGs in addition to Phlegm to give them that extra anti tank option. After all, how few weapons in the game are ST 10? However, I am reluctant from doing so as they are only BS 3... opinions?

I posted this list in a tactics thread but didn't get much feedback. What do you guys think? I find the LoC too expensive for what he does and you can take so many Heralds for his price (almost 4). Screamers are pretty lame so I haven't included any. I was thinking about it and I find them kind of unimaginative; I mean, it would have been so much more appropriate to have them cause one small ST 3 AP - blast on a unit that they move over, for each Screamer, for example. And they could be limited to moving over one unit per turn, no biggie. ANYWAY, I think this list is shockingly shooty. I mean, look:

3 x 24" ST 4 AP 5 Assault 6
32 x 18" ST 4 AP 4 Assault 3
4 x 24" ST 5 AP 3 Assault 3
3 x 36" ST 8 AP 3 Assault 1, Large Blast
9 x 24" ST 8 AP 1 Assault 1
9 x T 4+ to kill, no armour or cover saves.
4 Meltabombs

I mean, I would be absolutely terrified to face this army. It would wipe out MEQs like anything; look at all that AP3 and below stuff. Flamers are the stuff of nightmares.

I'm a newbie to 40K, so go easy on me. I love this army to bits and it's one of the main things I'm working on at the moment. In my opinion, Tzeentch are really the best mono-God list. They all deepstrike, all have 4+ inv. saves, one better than all the other daemons. You have SO many different shooting abilities, you can split your fire, and have a few tricks up your sleeve.

Any feedback most appreciated!

This list is good vs many MEQ armies. It will struggle vs mech Eldar or drop podded Marines.

OK, makes sense. I have a mech Eldar army myself (like you) and wiped out a Space Marine army by the end of turn 2 when my opponent conceded the game as he had only 3 models left...

Where I live, almost all people's 40K armies are MEQ, whether SM, CSM, Necrons, SOB, whatever. Another reason to play this army.

Vs. drop pod Marines sounds like fun! Both deep striking, quite bizzare...

Well, vs drop podding Marines it comes down to the question who arrives first, halve of the drop pods or halve of the Daemons.

I like the idea of the Scribes, just that it's a lot of points to possibly be able to shoot the same thing twice and picking up a large selection of gifts. I would prlly make them another Herald and deck out as many as I could with chariots. WAL looks like it might be overkill and would help with points for some of my overall suggestions here and later.

Also I might give another look at some screamers at least 4 probably 5-6 in one squad in the stead of the Bolts on the horrors. Reason being is then you have a concentrated assault on a vehicle and are not wasting the shooty goodness of the horrors. You can pick up 3 of them just by dropping the bolts and then squeeze a few more points here or there.

I would also balance out those horror squad numbers into squads of 7-8 maybe favoring the ones with icons/changling

The Soul Grinders are good, but if you have a chance try out the tzeentch prince's for a little variety. They can add some nice hth punch to a mono list. Especially if you kit them out with dg, and boc, doing both of those before charging causes some serious damage.

Warmaster wrote:The Soul Grinders are good, but if you have a chance try out the tzeentch prince's for a little variety. They can add some nice hth punch to a mono list. Especially if you kit them out with dg, and boc, doing both of those before charging causes some serious damage.

+1

While I agree about the usefulness and versatility of demon princes, in this list I think the soul grinders may be more useful -- since otherwise the list lacks any truly hard-hitting close combat capability.

I definitely agree on the need for chariots. As it now stands, the list is very static (once it hits the table, that is), and its shooting is close-ranged to begin with.

Where's Kairos?

kairos, daemon prince, screamers, where are they?

I still think that SGs are better than DPs for Tzeentch. SGs are one of the units in the Daemon army that you just can't go wrong with basically, like Flamers, Fiends, Bloodletters, etc. With this army I originally started off with SGs, then switched to DPs b/c they are marked Daemons and have so many options, but then I switched back to SGs. Tzeentch DPs are awesome and ultra versatile, they can be both shooty and CC, but I feel the SG's AP 3 large blast splat is too much to resist, really. If you don't take 3 SGs, you lack blast weapons. Tzeentch need blast weapons. He also has an Assault 6 weapon and can fight if he needs to. The point I want to make is that this army sucks in CC, and there is no point in trying to make up for it because doing so merely emphasizes that weakness (taking a few DPs - 1 to 3 models in a whole army that can fight? That won't amount to much, I think).

Well, I originally started off with 4 generic Heralds. I turned to the Bluescribes because they have some really interesting, non-Tzeentch abilities like Aura of Decay (good when faced with hordes) and Pavane of Slaanesh (for pulling/pushing enemy units around), etc. Their 'Watch This!' ability shouldn't be understimated as you have a half chance of doing two Bolts or two Gazes (or something else). Basically the Bluescribes are way cheaper than the total of their abilities dictates. They are also Jump Infantry and so can pop out do something unique or unexpected. The Bluescribes give me some interesting options, I feel, and I need that.

I disagree about dropping WAR on the Heralds as it allows them to shoot two different targets from the unit altogether (i.e. the Herald and the Horrors will be shooting at 3 different targets in total). Having said that, I will consider adding some Screamers to the army for the reasons you list. They are a bit expensive in $ now, though. Just because I give the Horrors BOT, that doesn't mean I'm going to shoot a vehicle with it most or alot of the time. The point is that that is the Heralds' job, and those Bolts are there for backup. They target MEQs in the meantime, mainly.

I like GD of Tzeentch. Not so much Heralds or the Scribes. Try Fateweaver, quite amazing actually. Re-roll 4++ for any unit within 6", and a re-roll 3++ for himself. GD of Tzeentch can carry their weight better than Heralds... if you need some points, I would drop the Screamers. I personally would go DPs instead of SGs.

... till you fail his LD test and he 'retreats in shock!'

dark, ive used kairos in 6 games now, and he has yet to run off.
allthough i did keep him away from 3 dev squads in 1 game (12 lascannons are crazy) and not worth keeping him near those things.

I've used Kairos a bunch myself, and he's run away once. With a T5, a 3+ rerollable invulnerable save, you typically don't have to roll too often. And when you do, it's still a 9 or less on 2d6. Yeah, it's possible, but it's not that likely.

LD 9 = 1/6 chance of failing: not very good odds IMO (333 points on the line). I am not against taking him; I just want the 4 Horrors in 2k, since the 4 HQ thing is a unique feature of the Daemon army. I would like to take a GD and some DPs in a 2.5k or 3k army list. I would like to try out Fateweaver, only I am not up for converting him at the moment. It's possible to just stick the 2 heads on his neck, the ones you get from the new LOC box, since it comes with both, and that's a simple enough conversion.

Having fun figuring out how, going to have to cut the necks and stick them togethor. Half the head is built into the neck, and there's one 'place' for the neck to fit on the body. Probably would have already done it by now if I had any experience whatsoever with the dremel.

I did try horrors on chariots. It's something to seriously look at if you're going ranged. Putting Icons on them and turboboosting to where you'd like your next deepstrike to land is pretty sweet.

well I can see your point sorta dark, thing is I think you are missing the fact that he already has a good chance to make the save initially, then again the 2nd time, then finally he would take the LD test. Now I am not saying you need or should take him, just that you seem to be missing some of the odds to keep him. 30% change to fail save, 30% chance to fail that, then 25% chance to fail straight multiplying the % gives like 2-3% chance of failure overall. I have never run him, though am interested in trying soon.

not trying to rail-road the thread, but kairos:

could pin on a 2nd head, or could go for a nice mutated look;

buy the LOC and gaulrauch box's.
use the necks from gaulrauch.
use his wings aswell.
parts of his arm instead of the LOC.
throw in some GS and you have a paranoid and mutated LOC.

Edit:
if you want some fun then run kairos and skarbrand.
lots of saves and great bonus's, shame the enemy get some.
against tau, who cares, but when fighting nids keep skarbrand at home