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Korhil has 3 attacks with Chayal (his big axe that gives +2 Str and killing blow).
On his profile listed under weapons it says Chayal and a hand weapon, so does Korhil have 4 attacks?..... 3 at Str 6 with KB, and one at Str 4 ?

No. He just gets the 3 attacks with Chayal. OR you could have 3 S4 attacks. You don't stack the attacks like that.

yes, now you say it i think you're right. Is that because you can't combine a magic weapon and then have an additional weapon?

It's not so much that, so much as in WFB you choose one weapon to fight with in combat with your base attacks with whatever benefits the weapon you're using provides. You only get an extra attack from handweapons if the model is on foot and armed with two hand-weapons.

With regard to magic weapons (and special character weapons - I'm not 100% sure Korhil's weapon counts as a magic weapon per-se), unless the rules for it state explicitly that it counts as a hand-weapon, you can not gain the benefits for carrying an additional hand-weapon. The existence of the hand-weapon, in Korhil's case, just lets you have the option to use his special axe OR to simply attack with his base stats (which under most circumstances would be a silly option).

Hope that clears it up.

If a model is armed with a magical weapon he must use that weapon. He has no choice but to use his 3 S6 attacks with the Axe. He cannot use the hand weapon unless that Axe is destroyed.

the hand weapon is there just to re-enforce the fact that EVERY model in Warhammer is concidered to have a hand weapon. so if for some reason his weapon were destoyed of it's magical propertie via Vauls Unmaking ar something similar, you could choose to use the hand weapon if it gave you some sort of an advantage.

So if Vaul's Unmaking makes Korhils 1-H axe mundane, then he could choose to have 2 hand weapons and have 4 attacks. Infact if every model in WH is considered to have a hand weapon, this means that if Vaul's Unmaking is used to v's a magic wpn they get +1 attack. Is that right?

no, because Vauls unmakeing makes any magic item the mundane version of it's self. so, if you were to use vauls unmaking on a magig weapon that say's "counts as a great weapon" it would become a mundane greatweapon. same with a lance or a spear. but yes, if it was a hand weapon, then yes you would get the +1 attack if you chose to fight with two hand weapons. ofcourse, I could be going off of an old rule, and maybe, not everyone is concidered to have a hand weapon any more. or maybe it says that normal characters that choose a magic weapon have their hand weapon replaced. I do know that in all of my army books that I have all of my characters automatically come with a hand weapon.

yeah i remember it was like that in the orange book, some troops had improvised weapons (bottles etc) and daggers were there which added +1 armour save to opponent

Arion wrote:no, because Vauls unmakeing makes any magic item the mundane version of it's self. so, if you were to use vauls unmaking on a magig weapon that say's "counts as a great weapon" it would become a mundane greatweapon. same with a lance or a spear. but yes, if it was a hand weapon, then yes you would get the +1 attack if you chose to fight with two hand weapons. ofcourse, I could be going off of an old rule, and maybe, not everyone is concidered to have a hand weapon any more. or maybe it says that normal characters that choose a magic weapon have their hand weapon replaced. I do know that in all of my army books that I have all of my characters automatically come with a hand weapon.

Actually yes; Korhil's Chayal does not have any reference to being equivalent to a great weapon, it simply "gives the wielder +2 strength". In the absence of any indication otherwise, Vaul's would turn Chayal into a hand weapon, thus giving him 2 total.

sorry, my "no" answer was more to his second question "Infact if every model in WH is considered to have a hand weapon, this means that if Vaul's Unmaking is used to v's a magic wpn they get +1 attack. Is that right?" vauls unmaking would not have this effect on every magic weapon, just ones that are hand weapons to start with.

Arion wrote:sorry, my "no" answer was more to his second question "Infact if every model in WH is considered to have a hand weapon, this means that if Vaul's Unmaking is used to v's a magic wpn they get +1 attack. Is that right?" vauls unmaking would not have this effect on every magic weapon, just ones that are hand weapons to start with.

True, but very narrow: again, take Korhil. He has 2 weapons, one hand weapon, one magic weapon that is not considered a great weapon (though it seems to be). Hit him with Vaul's and he now has 2 generic hand weapons, and thus an extra attack. Remember, virtually no magic weapons have the "hand weapon" designation. Your point that magic weapons with the "great weapon" or "lance" rules explicitly in their descriptions don't become hand weapons is correct, but remember that most magic weapons don't have any type, and thus revert to hand weapons.

A more nonsensical example is the DE weapon "crimson death"; the fluff remarks it is a halberd, but the rules only say it "requires 2 hands". Hit someone carrying that with Vaul's and it becomes a mundane hand weapon, and since they already have a hand weapon, they now have an extra attack!

I would say that the crimson death wouldn't be a hand weapon because it says "requires two hands" that obviously isn't a hand weapon. but you are right, most magic weapons have no designation and so would become a hand weapon. so it might not be a great weapon, or halberd, but it will still require two hand to weild. but if it doesn't say anywher if it's a lance, hand weapon, requires two hand or anything like that, then it would become a hand weapon. in my experience most magic weapons are swords, and swords are hand weapons.

Oh? Do you handle lots of magic weapons? ;-)

Unless a weapon is specified as being a hand weapon it is not one. For the example listed above the weapon in no way shape or form states that it is a hand weapon. So it would be turned into a mundane weapon but not a mundane hand weapon.

Negativemoney wrote:Unless a weapon is specified as being a hand weapon it is not one. For the example listed above the weapon in no way shape or form states that it is a hand weapon. So it would be turned into a mundane weapon but not a mundane hand weapon.

Incorrect: a magic weapon is not a hand weapon unless so specified (page p.121 RBR), but in the context of a magic weapon without any type specified, affected by Vaul's Unmaking (which would be the topic at hand), we must classify the affected weapon in accord with the rule on 56, under 'Hand Weapons':

The term 'hand weapon' is used to describe any weapon held in one hand and not otherwise covered by the rules.

Korhil's Chayal is without type of any sort, and has no quality to indicate it is not carried in one hand; it clearly becomes a hand weapon.

Kouran's Crimson Death also has no type, but it specifies that it "Requires two hands to use." Vaul's Unmaking removes all qualities of a magic weapon other then 'type' (see page 47, HE Army Book), note that the Crimson Death has no 'type', ergo it loses all its rules, including the 2 hand bit (two-handed is now a weapon type as per page 56). Since it is not a mundane weapon without any special qualities, it is by application of the rule on page 56, a 'hand weapon'.

A contrary example is Tullaris; as The blade of Har Ganeth explicitly has the 'great weapon' rule, it becomes a mundane great weapon.

N.B. all of this is particular to Vaul's; the spell from the Lore of Metal, Law of Gold makes an item outright unusable (and thus an easy issue to address).

and lord kroak's special rule says they all become hand weapons, whether they be lances, great weapns or otherwise.