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This is actually a spin off of a topic from Tauonline. http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=70692.0 (ignore the poll at the top of the screen)

I apologize if a topic similar to this has been posted previously, i did not see any.

Over at Tauonline some one brought up the fact that the 5th edition rule book had changed the rules for pinning tests. The nice people at Tauonline came up with a few not so widely accepted conclusions, that I would like to check with a few other people to confirm them or not.

Instead of pinning tests being taken due to casualties as in 4th edition, it changed to any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon causes the unit to take a test. This means that a weapon can now wound independent characters and groups of models with multiple wounds (mega-nobs, crisis suits, ogryns) only once and not kill anything, but they still have to test for pinning.(as long as their not fearless)

This also might mean something else. Some people believe that if a squad with all pinning weapons make a number of unsaved wounds for a number of weapons then a number of pinning tests need to be made. If a squad of 5 models with sniper rifles, pinning weapons, fire on an enemy squad and wound 3 models then the enemy squad must take 3 pinning tests. Because the rules say any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon must immediately take a pinning test, 3 weapons cause 3 wounds = 3 tests. As for barrage weapons, pinning in 5th edition, that blast, they may cause multiple wounds but still only cause one test. Multiple wounds for a single weapon causes one pinning test. However if many barrage weapons were in a single unit then there could be as many tests as there are weapons, if each weapon caused a wound.

Are these the correct rules for pinning? I don't see anything wrong with them, with so many fearless armies (necron, tyranid, daemons, and orks with mob rule) and most other armies having such high leadership along with a few fearless units. It would also level out the playing-field for the more shooty armies, with all the close combat armies running that extra D6 closer to melee every turn. What does everyone think?

If a unit... suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon, it must immediately take a Pinning test.

They are wrong. The use of the word "any" coupled with the pluarity of "wounds" means that as long as you take at least one wound (up to infinity) you must take a pinning test. "Pinning test" on the other hand is not plural.

the only time the rules reference multiple pinning tests is

As long as the tests are passed, a unit may be called upon to take multiple Pinning tests in a single turn...

which means that making one test does not keep a unit from taking a pinning test caused by another unit.

Budro has it. Each unit with pinning weapons can force only one pin check on a target unit. However, so long as that unit passes its previous pin checks, other pinning units can keep trying to pin it.

In short it means you want lots of small units with pinning weapons rather than a few large ones.

It's not so much emphasis on the wounds as it is on the weapons causing the wounds. The reason it says wounds(plural) is that a single pinning weapon may cause multiple wounds, but it can only cause one pinning test. The eldar sunrifle is assault 6 pinning. If it caused 4 wounds to a single squad, the squad would only take one pinning test. The same thing with barrage blast weapons, the blast can cause many wounds but still only force a single pinning test.

They believe the reason the rulebook says... suffers any unsaved wounds from a pinning weapon... is because each weapon can cause a test. The more weapons that wound the more tests.

It's rather a wonder that they didn't fold Pinning into Morale, so each unit affected by Pinning Weapons took one test like they would take a Morale check.

This debate has made the rounds a few times already. There is nothing conclusive, but the tendency seems to be one test per unit shooting.

Also realize, all shooting is supposed to be simultaneous. So even if three weapons make three wounds, you *can't* take the pinning tests 'immediately' until after all 3 wounds are taken; and it only says pinning test (singular) at that point.

Phoenix wrote:Budro has it. Each unit with pinning weapons can force only one pin check on a target unit. However, so long as that unit passes its previous pin checks, other pinning units can keep trying to pin it.

In short it means you want lots of small units with pinning weapons rather than a few large ones.

I'd second that. Is certainly the way I've always played it.

And as a sidenote, I've always felt Pinning would be more effective if additional pinning wounds from a single unit modified the enemy Ld test. BUt thats just me!