GoW and/or Combat Tactics + Company/Chapter Banner

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**Breton**

GoW and Combat Tactics both allow marines with Combat Tactics to choose to fail/automatically fail a morale check. The Chapter and Company banners say any space marine units within 12" must reroll failed morale and pinning checks.

So if I choose to fail, would I then have to (re)roll? Will Combat tactics/GoW trump this and let me choose to fail a second time? If I have a company standard, and a chapter banner both within 12, choose to fail the first time, (re)roll the failed check, actually fail the roll this time, would I then have to literally reroll as those dice have technically only been rolled once?

Would Combat Tactics/GoW work in concert with the must re-roll so that you then have to roll the check, but then choose whether you pass or fail regardless of the roll?

**Nurglitch**

Normally, when a unit is called upon to take a Morale check, you roll 2D6 and compare the result to a modified Ld value. There are two possible outcomes:
i. If 2D6 =< Ld-Modifiers, then pass.
ii. If 2D6 > Ld-Modifiers, then fail.

In conjunction with a Chapter Banner or Company Banner, if fail then re-roll the Morale check and the second result stands.

God of War replaces the 2D6 roll and comparison to a modified Ld value with a choice between the two possible outcomes. A unit with this rule, or the Combat Tactics rule while a unit with this rule is on the table, can choose either outcome instead of rolling for it.

Combat Tactics adds a choice to the 2D6 roll and comparison to a modified Ld value. A unit with the Combat Tactics rule can either roll the dice, and either pass or fail, or it can be chosen to fail.

Therefore, if a unit with Combat Tactics and/or God of War is within 12" of a Banner, the player can either choose a result, or roll for a result and re-rolls a failed result.

**Breton**

Yeah, but the RAW on the banners say always re-rolls failed morale and pinning tests.

While the pinning tests are immaterial to this discussion as neither CT or GoW affects pinning:

You choose to fail...

Check the range on the flag waving in the breeze..

And it now says you always re-roll.

Can you re-roll something you haven't rolled for in the first place?

If you can, the banner says always re-ROLLS... does that trump GoW, meaning you can't re-choose?

Do they work in concert, meaning you just roll the dice, and ignore the result in favor of your choice?

I think CT doesn't apply period, because CT says Automatically fail, and I remember, though can't find it, a passage saying an automatically failed morale check is an automatically failed morale check regardless of rerolls.... though that may have been a different special rule of someone else's I saw while debating the No Retreat issue with GoW.

**Antonin**

I say no, because you aren't re-rolling, you're just rolling, and that isn't contemplated in the rules. So no, no re-roll if no initial rolling.

God of War means you do not need to spend the points on that banner for any leadership enhancement - GoW has you covered already! (the extra attacks are nice, though)

**gaylord500**

I'm wondering why you'd buy the banners if you already have God of War...

I guess to be doubly sure in case he gets offed.

**Breton**

That and the Chapter banner provides +1A.

And its fluffy.

And it works on Pinning as well as just Morale.

**Lordhat**

Even if you HAVE to reroll... since you can choose to fail ANY morale check, you can choose to fail the reroll as well.

**Breton**

I'm not sure.... it says literally re-roll, not retake. The literal wording both says re-roll, and doesn't say retake. Though you haven't finished taking the first morale check, so its definitely a gray area. I don't expect it to come up often, but it caught my eye, made me wonder "What if..." and seemed like a good excercise of the brain.

**Nurglitch**

How is this a grey area? The banner requires a re-roll. If you don't roll in the first place, then you can't re-roll a non-roll.

**Drunkspleen**

The banner makes you always reroll, but on the second roll the same rules apply, With god of war you choose to pass or fail any morale checks, and this continues, with combat tactics you fail automatically, and the inclusion of that term suggests you couldn't reroll it even if you wanted to.