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i have been reading up on the gods in the warp and the martial; universe and so on, about all the wars and fights and stuff, but nowhere have i found any reference to the hive mind existing in the warp as an entity or god or anything.

Can anyone help?

They certainly do disrupt the warp as warp based communications is blocked and travel is thrown off as the astronomicon is obscured.

They are more of an mass of organisms so massive in their linked communication (essentially everything from single cell organisms to the hive fleet ships) that they just blot it out.

I dont think they exist in the warp as such. Think of them as ants. Every creature in the hive knows it place and its function, and will perform it whether or not it "wants to". They emmanate a psychic blockade hence the disruption to warp travel and warp based communication, i guess due to their own genetic imperative... The hive mind is essentially a gestalt consciousness formed from the billions of creatures that ARE the hive mind.

You kill an ant, does the whole hive stop working, no. You kill all but one ant, what happens.....
All hive fleets are similarly connected (a bit more advanced than ants i know), so the challenge is to isolate the fleets from each others psychic call so to speak.
Im not too sure myself but im just remembering roughly what i have read (im a fluff fiend).
I think i basically said what Waaagh_Ganads said above, but spread it out a bit and quite possibly i lost the point altogether.

Nids are telepathic -- that's how all the sub-creatures are controlled. The Hive Mind is a long-range telepathic link of the brain type creatures and the Shadow In The Warp is a side effect of the mass of telepathic communication going on in and around a hive fleet. Basically like radio interference.

Imagine, if you will, an Imperial Guard army. That guard army is being lead from afar by an imperial commander, who uses vox-casters to communicate to his officers, who then vox-cast to the sergeants, who then yell at their unit. Now, imagine this entire process being performed via loud speakers and megaphones, everyone screaming their orders and responses at each other. This is what it's like to face the Tyranids on a psychic level. Good luck getting the whisper known as your psychic power through!

On the one hand, the daemons will never find you to consume your soul, you're just a candle in the middle of a star going supernova. On the other hand, that candle's not gonna do a whole lot

What is the hive mind?

So, is it like a single grand entity communicating and commanding it's many features, or is it like a leader commanding his troops, independent of him?

The Hive Mind is the combination of many separate creatures linked telepathically. I imagine there are higher order creatures that do the strategic thinking, and leave the running of different subsystems to groups of lower order creatures.

Yeah, but do the lower levels have independent thought and free will, or are they forced to serve.

who makes the final call on things? are they on a planet or in a hive ship?

the tyranids are what's called a decentralized intelligence, or yes, a hive mind. It's sort of like one giant brain, that instead of being in one place has been split up into tiny pieces, and each piece is inside a different big bug. Things like hive tyrants, or warriors, even their bioships have giant "pieces" of the hive mind. As for free will, technically the hive mind IS the smaller tyranids' free will, as they don't have thoughts of their own, not in the strict sense. They all have instincts to fall back on when they're not controlled by the hive mind, but the instincts only kick in when they're not receiving instructions, so there's no 'battle of wills' so to speak.

I don't think anyone knows if there are actually huge 'brain bug' sort of creatures outside the galaxy, directing the hive fleets, but I don't imagine there is. It's just thousands and thousands of hive tyrants, zoanthropes, hirophants, and all sorts of bioships, biotitans, and so on, all sharing all these thoughts and information, telepathically.

The part that sort of blows my mind is the fact that while one hive tyrant may be "leading" the battle on Zylar Prime, he's in fact in exactly as much control of the army he's standing near as that warrior brood on Printus Zeta is, and vice versa. Both are equal portions of the hive mind, both contributing the same amount of actual 'brain power' to the hive mind. The difference is, the hive tyrant on Zylar Prime is the only one able to transmit the hive mind to the others, so if he dies all his little buggies are too far away to "hear" the other hive mind creatures.

The REAL question is, does the hive mind get "dumber" as you kill Synapse creatures? (that's the guys who are part of, and transmit, the Hive Mind, for those unaware) Say one planet has 100 tyrants and warriors on it, and you virus bomb the whole thing killing every single thing. Would the Hive Mind be less intelligent, more animalistic? At that number, maybe not, but say almost all of Hive Fleet Leviathan was wiped out, leaving on a handful of the bigger bug types. Would they all be dumb as a door post, and direct their remaining troops more poorly?

Thats also leaves the question, what happens when it's only a hive tyrant left, what does he do? can be convert into a proction thing or what and is he smarter by himself?

Well Actually I believe with what the other say, there is no actual being called the Hive Mind. I believe the Hive Mind is like the Hive Mentality more so then an independant mind that directs them. If any of you have played the game Starcraft there is an Overmind, a single entity that controls the thoughts of all the Zerg(similar to the tyranids) and directs them. The Tyranids are the polar opposite in that they collectivly make a decision as there is no one being that directs their thoughts. I think a comparison to ants is the best example except they don't have a Queen or King at least GW hasn't show so.


And no I don't believe that by killing alot of Hive Tyrants you would increase or decrease their intelligence, if they are like ants or bees or other hive creatures they would just create another one with the what biomass they have available. I know this may sound confusing but I think that their intelligence represents like a Grand instinct that drives the Hive without independant thought whilst the smaller creatures revert to a more preservational instinct when not guided by the hive. Like self defense or returning to the hive (like an ant would do if broken connection from its hive)

This is my first post and my two cents hope it was helpful

I found it helpful. Interesting theories!

So, you say they are independent, but simply unquestioningly obeying orders?

very inlightening Vengeance, i like the logic behind it.

i have grown fond of the theroy that they have higher beings making the calls as one

The thing about the hive mind you have to understand is that it is alien in every possible meaning of the word. One of the greatest quotes in warhammer fluff is "we don't hate the tyranids because they hate us, but because they are incapable of good honest human hatred." or something to that effect. The tyrands are like a body, they have parts that control, they have parts that fight, but they are truly ambivalent to the outcome or events of a battle. When they approach a planet, it is like a beast eying a meal in the desert, they go in and eat it that's it there's no emotion. They are utterly unconcerned with what happens to their lower creatures, in the same way you don't concern yourself with what happens to your white blood cells when they fight off bacteria. Even should untold billions die in a catastrophic battle planet side, their flesh is still there and eventually is going to be reabsorbed into the fleet. In fact after the planet is conquered the battle creatures, including hive tyrants, carnifexes, heirophants, and even bigger nastier things walk like lemmings into reclamation pools where they melt down into nourishment and are fed up into massive capillary towers where the hive ships descend feeding tubes to suck the goo from them. They drink the air and the oceans and leave a rock behind, they don't fight at all, just eat. What's even more impressive is when two different fleets meet, they will battle and although it may look like they are in deadly combat they are actually both becoming stronger sharing their own genetic material to the other, after such a battle they will essentially have merged and we be twice as strong as before. The tyranids will conquer the galaxy, of that there is no doubt, for they are the only force that cooperates totally with others of its kind, it outnumbers every other race, and it is incorruptible. Now about the hive mind, imagine that you are looking at a ripper and you are psychic, it is letting out a constant screech, not a loud one, now onto a warrior, there deafening screech coming from this one...now imagine the entire fleet together, that noise you are hearing is the hive mind, it blots out anything else psychically, which is the shadow in the warp. there is only one creature that stands out in the tyranid race, the genestealer, they travel far ahead of the hive fleet and infiltrate societies, there they corrupt the entire populous for decades if not longer, when these hybrid creatures are plentiful enough their individual psychic scream merges together reaching out light years like a beacon and guides the hive in to devour the world without resistance. I hope this helps some of you understand the hive, and why you must unite to destroy it.

And one last point, no they do not feel, there is no pain, no suffering, there is no thought, just the urge to devour.

Just to add, while there is no 'head of the snake' you can cut off to disable the Tyranids command 'structure', for want of a better word, the hive ship in orbit around the meal...sorry, planet, is controlled by the Norn queen.

From her, all the Tyranids are derived, genetically speaking. It makes sense to me, that the Norn Queen is the loudest of the screams in the Hive mind.

And to be fair, while they are all under the influence of the hive mind it's only ever really telling them to either run forwards and eat anything that isn't bedrock, or to return to the reclamation pools to be digested and sucked back up to the Hive ship.

Seggi wrote:I found it helpful. Interesting theories!

So, you say they are independent, but simply unquestioningly obeying orders?

I am saying like all animals have the urge for self preservation. Its like they are in panic mode when they lose connection with the hive (which guides their thoughts). When the link is broken they will try and defend themselves as best they can untill they can recieve direction from the hive again. This could represented by hiding, charging or retreating try to restablish the link. The lesser creatures don't have direction and they need to be directed properly.

i know this may sound silly, but i think it was a bugs life, where the ants were carrying food and a leaf stood in the way of the path and they all got confused and the line stopped untill the princess ant came and told them to walk around the leaf and things started moving again. Thats what I think it would be like for lesser beings without synapse creatures nearby and if those said ants say were attacked they probably would either run to the anthill or hide or fight back untill some proper order of organization was given to them so they would know what to do. With tyranids things can get complex

I wonder if independent nids detached from the hive have greater tendencies of fight, or flight? Just a thought... I suppose you would assume fight, but would that be a trait more of the Hive mind than independent nids...

thats as likely as your arm jumping off and starting its own life. but nids do get left behind, the catachan devil is one such example. they strive to dominate the ecosystem.

Different types of nids have different instinctual behavior when they've lost their connection to the Hive Mind. One of the Codices (for 3rd ed, IIRC) had rules from what each tyranid organism's behavior was if it was "out of synapse range."

I must buy one, if any one has one i can buy please pm me, i love the old nid artwork and funny paint jobs =)

What about a hive ship?

Squig_herder wrote:I must buy one, if any one has one i can buy please pm me, i love the old nid artwork and funny paint jobs =)

What about a hive ship?

I believe the ships themselves are living entities that carry other tyranids around in themselves.

The Hive ships are living, and massive, but still they are just a piece of the hive mind, none of them are free thinkers. The norn queens are basically massive walking wombs, the hive mind guides them to assemble the genetic trait their hive has assimilated and use them when birthing nids.

Danjal wrote:The tyranids will conquer the galaxy, of that there is no doubt, for they are the only force that cooperates totally with others of its kind, it outnumbers every other race, and it is incorruptible.

Nothing in incorruptable in 40K. Corruption is one of the major themes of the setting. The Tyranids are changed by every new species they encounter and genetically assimilate.

That isn't corruption, its evolution, They are only benefited by their new genes. The one that die out are discarded. By incorruptible, i mean they will be tryanids no matter what, there is no force in the heavens that can change what they are. The Chaos gods have no influence over them, if some alien were to capture one and modify it to their needs, as soon as the hive mind brushes it it will be in control again. The nids are nature unleashed, brutal and uncaring, hungry and ferocious.

Danjal wrote:That isn't corruption, its evolution,

It's both at once. They are one of the most corrupt species in 40K, but they make it work for themselves because they accept that corruption.