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Allrighty, having got my hands on the new Warriors of Chaos book, and after my aborted attempt to start Fantasy with Daemons, I've decided to go with Warriors of Chaos. I'm trying to build an army around Warriors, Knights, and a fearsome mounted Lord, avoiding marauders and things like Ogre's if at all possible.

If you have the book or have any knowledge of whats in it, let me know if you think this list is viable and if I've done anything illegal.

Chaos Lord
MoK
Juggernaught
Crown of everlasting conquest
rending sword
enchanted shield
favor of the gods
(and unless I'm mistaken, he now ends up with a -1 armor save unless I've done something illegal, 4+ Chaos armor, +3 for Jugger (1+) and then 5+ for shield resulting in -1)

2x Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scroll
book of secrets

3x 15 Warriors,shields, full command

3x 12 Chaos Warhounds

2x 5 Knights, full command

-thanks!
__________________

Are you not tempted with the chosen warriors? or do you think they cost too much? with that eye of chaos (or whatever it's called) random roll when you win a challenge, they are potentially deadly.

Are your opponents also going to be total beginners? If so, it’s hard to go wrong, though I expect even against beginners, big units of warhounds and a ton of warriors will eventually show their drawbacks.

Against anyone more experienced, you’re going to quickly learn the importance of units which can protect your flanks, and can engage the enemy’s fast and shooty elements early, so they can’t just hit you with impunity and evade your slow warrior blocks while you struggle frantically to get into melee.

Basic recommendations based on your stated preferences (liking warriors and knights, not wanting marauders or ogres) follow, though I think you’re hobbling yourself by not taking marauders, and downright shooting yourself in the foot by not using marauder cav, dragon ogres, or ogres.

Shrink the warhounds to units of 5. They are used primarily as cheap deployment fakeouts/table quarter holders, and to divert charges (most important tactical function) and screen other units from shooting. You can’t go wrong with 2-4 minimum-sized units. One large sized-unit can be a fun option if joined by a mounted hero, giving him cheap rank bonus and outnumber while moving fast. It tends to die quickly if your opponent can shoot with a darn, though.

Consider using only two units of warriors, give them halberds and shields. This gives you the best flexibility in maximizing your armor save or improving your hitting/armor penetrating power. With only M4, you’re going to find that your opponents will more frequently be choosing which units (if any) the warriors fight, so you want to be able to use the best equipment for the situation in which they find themselves. Having three units is probably overkill- just too many points in slow guys not putting any pressure on the enemy early.

Add a couple of chariots. These give incredibly-useful additional hitting power, and, since they can pivot freely as they move, you can keep them behind or beside your warrior blocks, aimed to charge any annoying skirmishers or flying units that try to land next to or behind the warriors and march block them.

Consider a couple of spawn, also to protect against enemy march blockers. Keep them moving along behind/alongside the warriors.

A hellcannon is another Rare option well worth considering. Its shooting can start working over enemy units early, putting pressure on and causing some casualties to soften up the enemy prior to the warriors’ eventually reaching combat.

I don’t think the book of secrets is a very good option for your sorcerer- miscasting with it can easily be deadly. Another scroll would be useful if your opponent has any respectable level of magic, or perhaps the spell familiar? Or maybe another fun toy like the blasphemous amulet?

A third character, either on a daemonic mount or a disc of tzeentch (probably the latter is best) would also be a significant help. The speed to charge out and kill an enemy shooting unit, war machine, etc. is extremely helpful. The disc-rider is now our only (relatively) inexpensive flying unit, so he’s almost a must-take.

misread...nm

calmacil wrote:Are you not tempted with the chosen warriors? or do you think they cost too much? with that eye of chaos (or whatever it's called) random roll when you win a challenge, they are potentially deadly.

Oh, the new Chosen are great units, but I like Knights more

Mannahnin wrote:Are your opponents also going to be total beginners? If so, it’s hard to go wrong, though I expect even against beginners, big units of warhounds and a ton of warriors will eventually show their drawbacks.

my likely opponents aren't new, but I am

Basic recommendations based on your stated preferences (liking warriors and knights, not wanting marauders or ogres) follow, though I think you’re hobbling yourself by not taking marauders and downright shooting yourself in the foot by not using marauder cav, dragon ogres, or ogres.

Probably, I agree, however I find the idea of an army of big armored dudes and heavy cavalry just too cool to pass up and I'm really not a fan of the Marauder or Ogre models, even the new ones. They look great but just aren't my thing.

Shrink the warhounds to units of 5.

Ok, sounds good.

Consider using only two units of warriors, give them halberds and shields.

Forgot to mention that they currently *do* have shields in the list above. Can you take a Halberd *and* a shield? I thought halberds were 2h weapons.

Having three units is probably overkill- just too many points in slow guys not putting any pressure on the enemy early.

Is their M4 really that much of a drawback? As I said I'm total newb when it comes to fantasy so far, I've only played a couple 500pt games with Daemons.

Add a couple of chariots. These give incredibly-useful additional hitting power, and, since they can pivot freely as they move, you can keep them behind or beside your warrior blocks, aimed to charge any annoying skirmishers or flying units that try to land next to or behind the warriors and march block them.

mmm good point.

Consider a couple of spawn, also to protect against enemy march blockers. Keep them moving along behind/alongside the warriors.

Hrm, another good point, that aren't as bad in fantasy as they are in 40k, so they might be worth it.

A hellcannon is another Rare option well worth considering. Its shooting can start working over enemy units early, putting pressure on and causing some casualties to soften up the enemy prior to the warriors’ eventually reaching combat.

I don’t think the book of secrets is a very good option for your sorcerer- miscasting with it can easily be deadly. Another scroll would be useful if your opponent has any respectable level of magic, or perhaps the spell familiar? Or maybe another fun toy like the blasphemous amulet?

I originally had it with power familiar, would that be a better buy? Can I take two dispell scrolls on each sorceror?

A third character, either on a daemonic mount or a disc of tzeentch (probably the latter is best) would also be a significant help. The speed to charge out and kill an enemy shooting unit, war machine, etc. is extremely helpful. The disc-rider is now our only (relatively) inexpensive flying unit, so he’s almost a must-take.

mmm good point, hrm...

Vaktathi wrote:

Consider using only two units of warriors, give them halberds and shields.

Forgot to mention that they currently *do* have shields in the list above. Can you take a Halberd *and* a shield? I thought halberds were 2h weapons.

you can use a shield and a 2 handed weapon, just not in combat. the shield bonus would only apply to shooting attacks while youre walking to the fight

Shields also allow you to go HW+S in CC if you need the AS. Useful when you consider that M4 is slower than most things that actually charge.

Marauder cav core+ knights+ mounted characters+hound screens=the winzorz.

There is also a fair consensus at this point that the Hellcannon can move and fire, slowly but it can do it.

Slight update here.

Chaos Lord
MoK
Juggernaught
Crown of everlasting conquest
rending sword
enchanted shield
favor of the gods


2x Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scroll
Power Familiar

2x 5 Knights, full command , MoK

3x 15 Warriors,shields, full command

4x5 Warhounds

new attempts!


Chaos Lord
MoK
Juggernaught
Crown of everlasting conquest
rending sword
enchanted shield
favor of the gods


Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scroll
Power Familiar

Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scrollx2

2x 5 Knights, full command , MoK

2x 10 Marauder Horsemen, full command, Javelins

2x 15 Warriors, Full Command, MoN.

I think that comes out to 2250.


Alternatively I was thinking of this

Archaon

Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scrollx2
Disc of Tzeentch

3x 5 Knights, full command , MoK

1x 10 Marauder Horseman, full command, javelins MoN

2x 20 Marauders, Shield, Light Armor, full command, MoS

2235pts.


And finally
1x Sorcerer Lord
MoT
Level 4
Dics of Tzeentch
Power Familiar
Book of Secrets
Blood of Tzeetnch
Power Stone

2x Sorceror (lvl2)
Mark of Tzeentch
Dispell Scrollx2


2x 15 Warriors, shields, full command, MoT

2x Marauder Horseman, Shields, Javelins, MoS

1x 10 Knights, MoT, full command, Blasted Standard

2244

I dunno if I would take knights in ranks whatsoever. That is a lot of points for a possible (if you get there without losing one man) +1 CR, when you could just take another unit of five.